Question about obstacles

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deadtorius
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Question about obstacles

Post by deadtorius » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:25 pm

In our upcoming refight of our convention demo game, there is a river between Austria and the evil Frenchies. IF the Austrian infantry are standing against the river they count as defending an obstacle. If a French cavalry unit declares a charge against them do the Austrians have to take a CMT for being charged while not in square?

I saw in the charts the auto loss of cohesion for cavalry being within 2 MU does not apply as the infantry are defending an obstacle.

Thanks for your input.

KendallB
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Re: Question about obstacles

Post by KendallB » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:04 am

You have answered your own question. You don't take a CT and you don't lose a cohesion level

deadtorius
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Re: Question about obstacles

Post by deadtorius » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:19 pm

I found to no auto cohesion loss but must have missed the whole CT thing, thanks.

alcibiades
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Re: Question about obstacles

Post by alcibiades » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:41 am

Also, depending upon the state/depth of the river, cavalry may not be permitted to assault across it.

That is the situation in our current game. The river separating the two armies is waist deep and prevents cavalry from assaulting across. Makes for some interesting decisions.

Cheers

Kent

deadtorius
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Re: Question about obstacles

Post by deadtorius » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:49 pm

What do you know I missed that one, I had thought it was only shoulder high that stopped a cavalry assault. Seems those sneaky Froggies didn't notice it either. Also I forgot that even an ankle deep river counts as an obstacle..... :oops:

Me thinks our replay might have more interesting surprises than we had originally thought... too bad I won't be free this weekend to try it out :?

Blathergut
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Re: Question about obstacles

Post by Blathergut » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:58 pm

p. 79: "...Crossing a river or stream is treated as crossing an obstacle for movement unless it is ankle deep, in which case it is ignored..."

..."water is ankle deep...defender is defending an obstacle..."

The top half of the river was ankle deep. Austrian cavalry could not defend as an obstacle. They could be charged/charge/counter-charge across it, no CMTs needed in any situation. The Austrian infantry WAS defending an obstacle, but had been driven back by shooting results. So the shallow stream ended up having no effect. Down by the village, where it was deeper, was more of a concern for the French and Italians. The Italian shock cavalry only got across because the Austrian horse retired back out of shooting range.

deadtorius
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Re: Question about obstacles

Post by deadtorius » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:31 pm

The Austrian Jagers were fighting at the river, it was the neighboring infantry and the grenadiers that got knocked back from shooting. The Austrian cavalry charged across the river into the French Hussars, Austrian cavalry charging is pretty rare in our games I will admit.

adonald
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Re: Question about obstacles

Post by adonald » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:55 am

The Austrian infantry WAS defending an obstacle, but had been driven back by shooting results.
How did that happen?

"Defending Infantry [sic] will not retire unless they become Broken." Page 80

Isn't an obstacle like a building, you have to break the defending troops to move them back from the edge?

Blathergut
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Re: Question about obstacles

Post by Blathergut » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:36 pm

"Defending infantry..."

This applies to "assaulting an obstacle." Hence my original (still unanswered) question in a nearby post.

http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=188&t=41516

Since the river/stream affords no cover, the question was: Can a unit that is at a river (it may be considered to be NOT defending it yet since no enemy has assaulted) or similar, be retired by shooting? I would assume so since it is not buildings.

But that was why the question was posed.

deadtorius
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Re: Question about obstacles

Post by deadtorius » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:13 pm

one would assume that since it is only an open river bank that excessive casualties could force the defender to give up ground as opposed to a wall that you can duck down behind. Perhaps some day this dark mystery will be resolved.

Blathergut
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Re: Question about obstacles

Post by Blathergut » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:07 pm

true...the only benefit comes when an enemy assaults you and you have a positional advantage...so retires from shooting would make sense

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Re: Question about obstacles

Post by terrys » Wed May 08, 2013 10:35 am

From the outcome table:

> 1st entry: ..... "If facing cavalry AND defending obstacle"...........
(The new QRS updates this to: "If in contact with cavalry"
> 3rd entry: ..... "Otherwise".........

Units will always use the 'otherwise' entry unless they are defending the river against cavalry. Of course it takes 4 or more hits from shooting to force them to do so - but since they are in the open for shooting purposes, that's easier to achieve.

deadtorius
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Re: Question about obstacles

Post by deadtorius » Fri May 10, 2013 12:01 am

Of course it takes 4 or more hits from shooting to force them to do so - but since they are in the open for shooting purposes, that's easier to achieve.
Obviously you have seen the Frenchies die rolls when shooting :shock: Austria wishes we could roll so well.... :oops:

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