clarification for artillery

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deadtorius
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clarification for artillery

Post by deadtorius » Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:29 pm

In our last game ended up in a situation I don't think we got quite right with a battery of Horse Artillery.

2 units declared a charge on the horse battery at the same time. Both could charge. One unit started about 4 MU out the other was 7 MU out. Options here are to abandon guns, shoot and run or stand and fight. That is correct is it not?

I chose to shoot and run. Both enemy units were stopped, and due to a lack of command points, unheard of in the French army until that day, they could not take a CMT so they chargers stayed put 4 and 6 MU out respectively. If there is no longer a charge do the gunners still have to abandon the guns?

If a charge starts at 2 MU or less your only choices are to stand and fire or flee, is that correct?

What happened in our game was the guns shot and stopped the charge but continued to abandon the guns. Next Austrian turn they sucessfully recovered the guns and did the same thing to the same charging units again, which once again were stopped but could not complete the charge due to lack of French command. The guns were now marked as wavering due to being abandoned twice.
French light infantry unit moved up off to the side but got within 2 MU so no attempts to recover were allowed until they were driven back. Game was called but just for the heck of it I tried to recover the guns again which was successful :twisted:
I think that battery will be showing up in more Austrian armies.

KendallB
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Re: clarification for artillery

Post by KendallB » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:45 pm

Horse artillery evades so they would have fired then limbered up and evaded.

Your charge reaction was to fire and evade which comes before the opponent's CMTs to press home the charge.

deadtorius
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Re: clarification for artillery

Post by deadtorius » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:40 pm

The enemy was too close For me to do an evade so I had to stand.

BrettPT
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Re: clarification for artillery

Post by BrettPT » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:54 pm

The shoot at medium range and run option (last bullet point on page 30) is a little unclear.

Here's my take on this:

1. You still need to take a CT first. (the whole bullet point is an "Action requiring a compulsory Cohesion Test" and 'you may attempt to fire at medium range before abandoning...')

2. If you fail the CT, foot artillery abandon the guns (dropping 1 cohesion if assaulted by infantry, 2 if assaulted by cavalry, as per the 'Otherwise' line on the abondoned guns table). Horse artillery drop a cohesion level (see last paragraph on page 30), limber up and retire (see last line of bullet point). You don't get to shoot.

3. If you pass the CT, you shoot at medium range. I assume that assaulting units 'stop' at 6MU to receive this fire, or take the shots before moving if already closer.

4. If the assault is stopped by the shooting, the artillery stay where they are - they no longer abandon the guns/limber and retire. (see middle sentance of bullet point).

5. If the assault is not stopped by shooting, the artillery then abandon/retire. My guess is that foot artillery then drop 1 cohesion loss for abandoning as a 'voluntary' retirement' and that horse artillery don't drop a level at all (they are not abandoning).

Essentially, the only differences between this option and the normal stand and shoot are:

(a) If you fail the CT, horse artillery will drop a cohesion level and retire (rather than abandon)
(b) If you pass the CT you shoot at medium rather than close range; and
(c) If you pass the CT but fail to stop the enemy by shooting, you will abandon (foot artillery) or retire (horse artillery) rather than stay around to fight hand to hand.

It's a good option IMO to take for horse artillery. If you fail your CT, you get to scoot off rather than abandon. If you pass the CT, you sacrifice getting shooting hits on a '4', but will still get to scoot off if shooting is ineffective.

Cheers
Brett

deadtorius
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Re: clarification for artillery

Post by deadtorius » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:29 pm

Thanks for your interpretation.
Trying to figure out the whole range thing and where they stop etc I managed to miss the whole"if the enemy assault is stopped by the fire the artillery will remain where they are and fire again during the the following firing phase" sentence. A case of too many words and not enough actually reading what they say I guess :roll: However even with 2 of us looking it up we both managed to miss that critical sentence, too busy trying to figure out when the second unit got shot at I guess.

Of course being charged from less than 4 MU means you can either stand and shoot, then you have to melee or just abandon the gun. Looks like Horse Artillery has to abandon in this case as well, since the only reference I can see to limbering and scooting off occurs if the charges are 4 MU or more away from you when they started their charge.

BrettPT
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Re: clarification for artillery

Post by BrettPT » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:00 am

Yup. No time to limber if charged from within 4MU.
Stand and shoot, or Abandon are your only options

hazelbark
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Re: clarification for artillery

Post by hazelbark » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:03 am

BrettPT wrote:The shoot at medium range and run option (last bullet point on page 30) is a little unclear.
understatement. But I agree with you're reading.

This was going to be the next slideshow explaining the rules if we thought it would be helpful.

JJMicromegas
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Re: clarification for artillery

Post by JJMicromegas » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:13 pm

Hello, instead of posting in a new thread I thought I would out here.

I was wondering if horse artillery can limber and move in one step without a CAT for a second move? I was reading through the rules and couldn't find the reference to this.

Thank you

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Re: clarification for artillery

Post by hazelbark » Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:08 pm

If it is charged it can limber and evade.

But no a limber is a formation change, not a move.
It would still need to CMT to move a 2nd time.

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