question about when to wheel

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deadtorius
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question about when to wheel

Post by deadtorius » Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:03 pm

This seems to keep coming up in our games about the exact meaning of "wheeling in the first half of the move".
My own interpretation is that you have to start the wheel somewhere in the first half of your allowed move, so if you are unreformed infantry for example start it somewhere within the first 2 Mu of your move, reformed infantry would have to start it within the first 3 MU of their move. Main reason I ask is that I can wheel 90 degrees with a small unit of Austrians but it takes a full move to do it, in 28mm. If the wheel had to be completed in the first half of the move then I could only ever wheel 45 degrees.

Any thoughts on interpretation?

Saxonian
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Re: question about when to wheel

Post by Saxonian » Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:00 am

The requirement to wheel in the first half of the move is a bit confused.

On p.29 under "Wheeling During an Assault":
- the first bullet point says units can wheel up to 90 degrees, but cannot exceed half their normal move distance in doing so.
- the second bullet point says that the wheel must occur before any straight ahead movement.
These two together amount to saying that the wheel must occur in the first half of the move.

On p.37-38 under "Moving Units":
'All wheeling must be completed within the first half of the move and before any straight forwards movement if the unit is making an assault move." (my emphasis)
Nowhere is it mentioned that this applies to a normal move.
The 90 degree restriction does apply to wheels in a normal move. (p.38, 3rd bullet.)

The statement in Moving Units only re-iterates what was said in Wheeling During an Assault.

IMHO, during a normal move, a unit may wheel multiple times and at any point of the move, as long as the total wheel does not exceed 90 degrees. (Though I have been wrong before!! :) )

Blathergut
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Re: question about when to wheel

Post by Blathergut » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:43 am

I've always read that as: All wheeling must be completed within the first half of the move and [a second point/exception] before...assault move.

But I think/hope you are right as otherwise you can't make a 90 with anything other than cavalry. Now, maybe that's the intention! Weird how things come up here and there when you think you have the rules down clear.

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Re: question about when to wheel

Post by Saxonian » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:50 pm

If that were the case, I would expect to see at least a comma after "move".
The fact that it is a single sentence without any punctuation is why I have always read it as relating only to assault moves.

The diagram at the bottom of page 38 shows a unit making a small wheel, followed by a straight forward move, followed by another wheel at the end.
For this to be a legal move, then the interpretation I put in my last post has to apply..... I think!
What is shown in this diagram is explicitly forbidden during an assault (p.29), which means that it must be illustrating a normal move (as the title above the picture says).

I have to say that the restating of this rule (that only applies in assaults) in the section about normal moves is probably unnecessary - and a little confusing - but this is the only way I can make sense of this.

Realistically, if it were intended to prevent infantry from wheeling past a certain angle, I would expect there to be a rule or bullet point which specifically stated this, not something that would simply be implied.

Blathergut
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Re: question about when to wheel

Post by Blathergut » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:20 pm

Ya, I think so too. Just kinda came up at a moment and we both kind of thought double for a second, but am sure you are right.

deadtorius
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Re: question about when to wheel

Post by deadtorius » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:18 pm

Makes the most sense, thanks for your input

KeefM
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Re: question about when to wheel

Post by KeefM » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:07 pm

Moving in the assault phase definitely has different criteria in regard to wheeling than in the movement phase.

Also, it is worth noting that (in 15mm) it takes 4.5MU to wheel a small unit 90 degrees. So it isn't possible for an unreformed small infantry unit to wheel that far anyway. And which may be one reason why the last official amendments also brought in the "pivot" move for artillery and unreformed infantry in extended line.

Another interesting point is that the 'more than half the move' rule for assaults also prevents any unit other than LC (in open ground) actually wheeling 90 degrees.

deadtorius
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Re: question about when to wheel

Post by deadtorius » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:02 pm

In 28mm any cav unit could wheel 90 in a charge. Seems odd since in the other fog rules 15mm seems to get more ballet like moves from what I have read on other forums

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Re: question about when to wheel

Post by terrys » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:17 am

In 28mm any cav unit could wheel 90 in a charge. Seems odd since in the other fog rules 15mm seems to get more ballet like moves from what I have read on other forums
Not quite.
In 15mm a 90deg wheel is just over 4.5 inches (MUs)
In 25mm a 90deg turn is 6.8 inches - or 4.24 MUs

This does make large units much less manoeuvrable than small units:
15mm require 6.8 inches (MUs) to turn 90deg
25mm require 10.2 inches (6.36 MUs)

Blathergut
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Re: question about when to wheel

Post by Blathergut » Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:27 pm

So, Terry:

Must all wheeling be done by the halfway point of a unit's move (excluding assaults)?

terrys
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Re: question about when to wheel

Post by terrys » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:38 pm

Must all wheeling be done by the halfway point of a unit's move (excluding assaults)?
No. A wheel may be made at any point of a units move if it is not assaulting.

Blathergut
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Re: question about when to wheel

Post by Blathergut » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:58 pm

Thanks Terry!!

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