Can a charger unit ignore skirmishers in line of charge

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pugsville
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Can a charger unit ignore skirmishers in line of charge

Post by pugsville » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:06 pm

There is a skirmisher units between a unit and it's desired target of an assault can it just declare a charge on it's desired target as the skirmishers would have to evade ? Or does the unit have to declare a charge on the skirmishers (with the associated limits on wheeling)?

deadtorius
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Re: Can a charger unit ignore skirmishers in line of charge

Post by deadtorius » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:14 pm

As long as you can contact an enemy they can be the target of a charge. Keep in mind wheel restrictions on your preferred target, you may just have to charge the skirmish line anyway.

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Re: Can a charger unit ignore skirmishers in line of charge

Post by hazelbark » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:22 pm

As dead sort of suggests. What do you by "between". If in the clear sense you can't get from point A to point B with passing through the skirmisher, then no. You charge the skirmisher first. After it evades you're options adjust per the rules.

pugsville
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Re: Can a charger unit ignore skirmishers in line of charge

Post by pugsville » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:25 pm

It's about wheeling and angle of charge, the skirmishers are directly in front, very close, off to the side is another unit the charger wishes to assault.

When the rules talk about restrictions to wheeling during an assault, which unit do they apply to? There is no way (in this example) to contact the other unit without contacting the skirmishers but given they will be evading is it that as the skirmishers as the first unit possibly contacted the charger is restricted to wheeling in relation to the skirmishers or can the charger specify that the unit off to the side is the actual target and wheeling restrictions apply to the second unit off to the flank? (and the skirmishers are 'incidental' to the charge)

Does the target have to be 'first unit contacted' if this unit is going to evade anyway?
Can you target more than one unit? if so how does that restrict wheeling in the assault? (or do you declare only single target and if the legal charge move contacts multiple units you fight them? I imagine that unless units are in a straight line fairly square to the assualters it wont generally happen)

Do units obstruct LOS? (as you must be able to see a unit to charge them)

the skirmishers are directly in front, very close a charge which must apply the wheeling restrictions to the skirmishers in close is going to be more or less straight ahead, thus in no danger of contacting a unit off to the side a way.

the rules say
"the unit must be able to make a normal advance move that will contact the target or the front of a defended obstacle"
(page 28 second point on left)

You couldnt make a normal move through a opposing skirmishing unit. Thus you could argue that any charge seeking to target a unit beyond the skirmishers isnt legal as a normal move could not move through the skirmishers even though in the actual charge they will evade. (OK I'm Russian I have cossacks) NOTE the second more preferred target unit is more than 2MU from the charge path if the skirmishers HAVE to be the initial target thus cannot be contacted if the skirmishers HAVE to be the target of the assault. Or it could be option B skirmishers can be ignored for declaring targets beyond the skirmishers.

Is that clear? what I'm asking?

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Re: Can a charger unit ignore skirmishers in line of charge

Post by deadtorius » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:54 pm

If the skirmishers are in the way you have to make them the target.
Now keep in mind their evade is directly away from you, so you could make a wheel and attempt to drive them into your preferred target. You choose the charge path with wheel restrictions, and specify any wheels before you move. The evade must follow this charge path directly away from your front. This might put your desired target within 2 mu of your path, or better yet force the skirmish line to burst through them.
However keep in mind that if the skirmishers can avoid friends, and you can still contact them with your charge, you will have to follow the skirmishers and contact them.
The only way you can contact a new target is if your original target can't be contacted, or in the case of a burst through, you hit a different target directly in your charge path.

So yes you might be able to hit your intended target, but not guaranteed.

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Re: Can a charger unit ignore skirmishers in line of charge

Post by hazelbark » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:26 pm

deadtorius wrote: The only way you can contact a new target is if your original target can't be contacted, or in the case of a burst through, you hit a different target directly in your charge path.
There is also that 2 MU swerve thing to a new target potentially.

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Re: Can a charger unit ignore skirmishers in line of charge

Post by deadtorius » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:54 pm

If you can't contact the original target you can choose a new target within 2 mu of the charge path. If you will contact your original target even with their evade, you have to follow and close with the original target. You can't just decide to veer off course on some whim.
With 10 mu of charge it's likely you will chase and catch said skirmishers unless you can force a burst through and then you go straight into what you wanted to charge in the first place. You are still following your target but they moved through another unit and it stands and takes the charge, unavoidable contact.

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Re: Can a charger unit ignore skirmishers in line of charge

Post by terrys » Fri May 02, 2014 11:05 am

If the non-skirmishers are in range it is very likely that you can contact them, because you can make an initial wheel, and then an additional one if the potential target is within 2MU of the path (or direction) of your charge.
There may be a few circumstances where you can't contact the 2nd unit, but you should be able to do so in most cases.

You would still have to wheel towards the skirmisher so that the centre of your front edge is facing some part of them, so that may restrict your chance of hitting the other enemy.

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Re: Can a charger unit ignore skirmishers in line of charge

Post by pugsville » Fri May 02, 2014 2:41 pm

You could then as a tactic "screen" units by pushing a skirmisher units in really close so that any charge would be more or less straight ahead (thinking mainly cavalry) push cossacks right up to some enemy cavalry then move up further along (but more than 2MU along so the charge cannot divert)

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Re: Can a charger unit ignore skirmishers in line of charge

Post by terrys » Sat May 03, 2014 3:11 pm

You could then as a tactic "screen" units by pushing a skirmisher units in really close so that any charge would be more or less straight ahead (thinking mainly cavalry) push cossacks right up to some enemy cavalry then move up further along (but more than 2MU along so the charge cannot divert)
The problem with this is that the cossacks evade D6 + 6 ..... so that with a roll of 1 to 3 enemy light cavalry would catch them, or heavy cavalry if you roll a 1.

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Re: Can a charger unit ignore skirmishers in line of charge

Post by pugsville » Sun May 04, 2014 1:16 am

dont they just drop a CL and get ushedback another 4 MU at that point?

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Re: Can a charger unit ignore skirmishers in line of charge

Post by terrys » Sun May 04, 2014 9:08 am

don't they just drop a CL and get pushed back another 4 MU at that point?
That's true ... I guess it could be useful in some situations - especially if the enemy has only 1 unit of cavalry in the area.

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