Moving backwards clarification

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KendallB
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Moving backwards clarification

Post by KendallB » Sun May 11, 2014 9:35 am

Need some clarification about a dispute in today's game.

If you want to move a unit backwards does it
1. Move straight backwards without deviation to the side ending up facing its original front/rear (moving arrow-straight backwards)
2. Move back but allows wheeling as it the rules apparently state that you can turn 180 degrees and include wheels as the movement. This may mean that the unit finishes at an angle to its original facing.
3. Turn 180 then move allowing wheels so long as the unit ends facing its original rear angle.

Blathergut
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Re: Moving backwards clarification

Post by Blathergut » Sun May 11, 2014 10:28 am

We have always played:

>move rear bases as if they were front bases, wheeling as you wish (in first half of half move!), avoiding friends if necessary

No need to move directly back.

deadtorius
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Re: Moving backwards clarification

Post by deadtorius » Sun May 11, 2014 1:36 pm

Only back move restriction I can think of is with skirmishers who can do a full move straight back, or straight forward or half move in any other direction.
For line troops you can wheel while doing a back move, and end either facing forwards or to your original rear, ie the 180 degree turn thing,

KendallB
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Re: Moving backwards clarification

Post by KendallB » Mon May 12, 2014 3:10 am

Backwards movement can be:
- Extended line, limbered artillery march columns moving a full move backwards ending facing the original rear
- Tactical, extended line, march, limbered artillery moving half a move ending facing the original front or rear
- Skirmish moving a full move ending facing the original front or rear

The big question is what does "original" mean?
- Same angle the unit was to the table edges
- Anywhere in the 180 degree arc to the front or the rear of the unit

I think that moving backwards was tricky so no deviation from the straight line is possible.

Saxonian
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Re: Moving backwards clarification

Post by Saxonian » Mon May 12, 2014 3:47 am

KendallB wrote:Backwards movement can be:
- Extended line, limbered artillery march columns moving a full move backwards ending facing the original rear
- Tactical, extended line, march, limbered artillery moving half a move ending facing the original front or rear
- Skirmish moving a full move ending facing the original front or rear.
All the above is correct.
For skirmishers, march column and limbered artillery the about face is a fairly straightforward manoeuvre. These units can move pretty easily under normal circumstances.
The fact that the wheel has to take place in the first half of the move means that:
- for a unit in line making a full move and ending facing to the rear, a 1.5MU wheel (2MU if unreformed). Over the length of the line this is not much.
- for a unit in line making a half move and ending facing to the front, a 0.75MU wheel (1MU if unreformed). Again, not much of a wheel.
- for a unit in tactical making a half move and ending facing front or rear, a 1.5MU wheel (1MU if unreformed).

IMHO the built in restrictions mean that a unit cannot make much of a wheel when moving backwards anyway. Unreformed in line do better, but they should as a line is their natural state.
KendallB wrote:The big question is what does "original" mean?
- Same angle the unit was to the table edges
- Anywhere in the 180 degree arc to the front or the rear of the unit
I think the question of a unit's "original" facing (in this context) is to do with whether or not it has performed an "about face" as part of its move, rather than its position relative to the table edge, or any other unit on the battlefield.

There is nothing I can recall in the RAW that prevents a wheel during retrograde movement.

KendallB
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Re: Moving backwards clarification

Post by KendallB » Mon May 12, 2014 4:47 am

The proviso for wheeling only in the first half of the move is just for movement during the Assault phase. During the movement phase you can do as many wheels as you want so long as you don't exceed a total of 90 degrees.

So long as they start outside 2MU, infantry in Skirmish can move back 6MU including a wheel up to 90 degrees which leads to the "dancing" skirmishers as described in the thread on Skirmishers. This is a level of manoeuvre flexibility that I don't think was possible with bodies of troops numbering around 2000 men. I certainly haven't read anything.

It gets even worse for skirmish cavalry and their 10MU move!

Saxonian
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Re: Moving backwards clarification

Post by Saxonian » Mon May 12, 2014 11:18 pm

KendallB wrote:The proviso for wheeling only in the first half of the move is just for movement during the Assault phase. During the movement phase you can do as many wheels as you want so long as you don't exceed a total of 90 degrees.
Hmmm, yes, that's correct......as I have myself pointed out in a previous discussion :oops:

But my last comment stands - there is nothing (that I know of) that prevents a wheel during retrograde movement in the RAW.

KendallB
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Re: Moving backwards clarification

Post by KendallB » Mon May 12, 2014 11:34 pm

I agree with nothing in the rules which prevents it except that the "facing original front or rear" needs to be clarified as it will have an effect as to whether you can wheel whilst moving backwards.

Blathergut
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Re: Moving backwards clarification

Post by Blathergut » Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:22 pm

KendallB wrote:The proviso for wheeling only in the first half of the move is just for movement during the Assault phase. During the movement phase you can do as many wheels as you want so long as you don't exceed a total of 90 degrees.
I don't think this statement is correct.

Page 29: all wheeling must be completed before any forward movement during an Assault
Page 37 (last bullet): all wheeling must be done in the first half of the move (and Assault restriction again repeated)

The question still seems to stand: Can I begin wheeling by the halfway point of the move and continue...or...as it states above, must all wheeling be done by the halfway point of a unit's move?

terrys
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Re: Moving backwards clarification

Post by terrys » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:55 pm

The question still seems to stand: Can I begin wheeling by the halfway point of the move and continue...or...as it states above, must all wheeling be done by the halfway point of a unit's move?
The restriction on wheeling during the first half of a move is only when assaulting.
During a normal move you can wheel at any point of the move.

You can also wheel as much as you want during a move backwards - up to half a move in tactical
A move backwards for a unit in tactical consists of:
> 180 deg turn
> Half a move which may include a wheel.
> 180 deg turn back if required

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