2nd Dutch-Belgian Division at Quatre Bras

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Re: 2nd Dutch-Belgian Division at Quatre Bras

Post by hazelbark » Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:31 pm

Indeed Ney never used the Guard Cavalry.

The theory is with the defections from VI Corps there were lots of rumors of traitors. Ney did not join the army until June 14-15 so the Guard Cavalry was sent to show everyone that Napoleon trust Ney.

Ney was an Army of the Rhine guy during the revolution and never fully trusted by Napoleon until the 1812 campaign. Then, the retreat and the 1813-14 Napoleon really grew to rely on him a lot.

Ney was specifically recalled before the Katzbach in 1813 because Napoleon wanted him with him at Dresden. In 1814 he commanded the Young Guard I think. Ney clearly was the tenacious battlefield brawler but he was the classic wargamer. Take everything and attack straight in.

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Re: 2nd Dutch-Belgian Division at Quatre Bras

Post by bahdahbum » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:00 am

By the way : Constant-Rebecque is the dutch-belgian chief of staff and Perponcher the commander of 2nd division ....

If Quatre-Bras happened it was thanks to Constant-Rebecque who disobeyed Wellington's orders and issued to the dutch-belgian army orders to concentrate on Quatre-Bras . Wellington was still sure that Napoleon would avoid Quatre-Bras a go trough Mons more to the french left . He realised his mistake on the battlefield :D

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Re: 2nd Dutch-Belgian Division at Quatre Bras

Post by shadowdragon » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:06 pm

The specific references I used were:

Otto von Pivka (Digby Smith): Napoleon's German Allies 2: Nassau & Oldenburg, and Dutch-Beglian Troops of the Napoleonic Wars
Ronald Pawly, Wellington's Beligan Allies 1815, Wellington's Dutch Allies 1815

plus whatever I could find on-line.

The only specific references to landwehr are:

1) Digby Smith mentions that a Landwehr and 3rd regiment were raised by Nassau in 1813 but that after peace in 1814 were disbanded. He provides a quote from an 1836 letter from Gen. Kruse mentioning that the 1st and 2nd regiments only had 2 battalions each in the summer of 1814 but that they were reinforced by the disbanded 3rd regiment. Kruse does not mention the disbanded Landwehr regiment. Smith also explicitly describes the 3rd battalions of both the 1st and 2nd regiments as "landwehr" in the detailed order of battle that includes the names of the battalion commanders.
2) The Mont St. Jean website: It describes the 3rd battalion of the 1st regiment as "landwehr" but not the 3rd battalion of the 2nd regiment.
3) TMP: Someone there mentions the 3rd battalions as "militia" but gives no source.

Of course, these could all be wrong.

I do not question the 2nd regiment being classified as "light Infantry" and as I mentioned in my post. Perhaps the line in the army list that reads "Dutch Belgian Jagers" should be "Dutch Belgian Jagers or Nassau Light Infantry".

In deciding how to model the 2nd division I also considered the army lists (i.e., "bases per unit" and "minimum bases") and use in the game (i.e., a 4-base vs a 6-base unit for both lights and militia). Also, FoGN isn't intended to model single battalions so representing forces that tended to shuffle individual battalions around will always be an approximation.

So, one could represent the 2nd division as:

Nassau Infantry: 4 bases poor drilled line (Orange Nassau Regt)
Nassau Light Infantry (using stats for Dutch Belgian Jagers): 6 bases average drilled light (2nd Nassau Regt)
Dutch Belgian Infantry: 4 bases average drilled line + skirmisher attachment (7th Line, 27th Jagers)
Dutch Belgian Militia: 4 bases poor conscript line (5th, 7th and 8th militia)
Artillery - 2 bases
Officer Attachment

However, in my opinion the large light unit is too powerful within FoGN while the small conscript unit is too fragile.

So, in the end I went with what I described in my post above:

Nassau Infantry: 4 bases poor drilled line
Nassau Light Infantry (assumed to fall under the category "Dutch Belgian Jagers"): 4 bases average drilled light
Dutch Belgian Infantry: 4 bases average drilled line + skirmisher attachment
Dutch Belgian Militia: 6 bases poor conscript line
Artillery - 2 bases
Officer Attachment

I think this is a more balanced division and perhaps....perhaps.... provides an overall divisional performance closer to the original. Plus it's got the additional benefit of being consistent with the army list restrictions.

In any event I'm not saying I'm right or wrong but what I went with to guide my purchasing / painting of figures. I should have enough skirmishing stands to represent a number of different interpretations.

And, of course, people can do as they please....what's above, however wrong it might be, is freely offered for others to consider or ignore.

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