Using impetus style scenic bases for FOG

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mellis1644
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Using impetus style scenic bases for FOG

Post by mellis1644 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:28 pm

Has anyone though of using/tried using 'impetus rules' style bases for FoG ?

i.e. rather than using a normal single base with figs on, those bases are 2 x 2 the normal FOG size (for all other than skirmishers & elephants which are twice as wide and just 1 base depth deep). The bases often have fewer figs on them but in a more scenic/modeling style, as figures are not crammed on the base as in normal ancient bases. It allows a much more scenic and artistic method of finishing the models/units - which appeals to the modelers in some of us at least.

For FoG-AM the base size and movement would stay the same and an 'extended size base' would represent the normal number of bases for FOG. So 4 normal bases in a 2 wide, 2 deep formation in most cases.

The only issues I see are:

* it obviously limits formations - but likely not too much in many cases,

* no columns of troops for the units/troops so based as they are deployed 2x2 - again that's the penalty you take for this type of basing,

* would require a method of marking destroyed bases, so that's a pain but not that major of an issue - we mark status already do an extra is not a major thing,

* if 2 bases are destroyed and the unit is still active it would be deeper on the table than it actually would be using normal bases - which may effect pursuits etc.

* adds some issues for troops turning to face if attacked from multiple sides - but actually it may make that bit of the rules easier as there is no option of turning some bases to face. :)

* would not work for all armies and units, but may for some/most.

Do you see other issues in this and would it work?

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Post by ShrubMiK » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:22 pm

It's not jsut turning to face enemies attacking from multiple that could be an issue - simpy turning 90 in the open will be tricky if you are a 2x2 formation that needs to become a 1x4 column when it turns. I guess you may say you already mentioned no coulmns - but this is a mnadatory column rather than one you can simply decide you never want to go into.

Sure it will work, with a few compromises on rules and additional markers/book-keeping...if you are only playing friendly games and your opponents are relaxed about it there's no problem.

Of course, if you want the best of both worlds you need to double up your figures, so you have one scenic double width and double depth base that you use most of the time, and then replace it with the for single bases when circumstances demand. That involces a small additonal commitment in time and moeny though ;)

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Post by Polkovnik » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:40 pm

Also charges, pursuits & evades where you drop a base to avoid friends.

This will not work IMO. There are quite a lot of situations (that happen every game) that you will not be able to easily work around.

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Post by mellis1644 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:15 pm

Hmmm....thanks for the comments.

Impetus is quite popular around here and gaining more players for friendly games. I enjoy the game myself and it does play well - but it's not for the rules lawyers/serious competition player out there.

The impetus bases done well can look so cool compared to the traditional Ancients ones though. The visuals of games really start to appeal to the FoW and fantasy crowd who can paint/model well- much more than traditional 30 year old basing styles. It's also much cheaper on lead to make an army, which is another draw for them. :)

I'm thinking seriously of moving some of my basing for future projects to that style of basing vs. the traditional. So thought I'd ask and see what others thought if there was a serious option of using those bases in FOG - if I can find opponents.

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Re: Using impetus style scenic bases for FOG

Post by Legionbuilder » Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:05 am

One of the gamers in our Club here in Chicago - the Lost Command - is playing Imputus - he based his figs per Imputus style BUT keep the 60mm wide bases just like regular FOG or DBM and just made four bases per Imputus stand - then I made him some metal bases 120mm wide by 60mm or 80mm deep to put his 4 stands on - and poof he can play both game systems with his figs.
My only problem with his basing method is that - without the correct number of figs on the silly bases - it is freaking impossible to remember what the heck the figs represent - skirmishers, or regular archers - etc etc - drives me crazy BUT I am glad to see more ancients gamers in our club

david53
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Re: Using impetus style scenic bases for FOG

Post by david53 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:38 pm

Might work for friendly games ie club games much less so for any tournement games,

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Re: Using impetus style scenic bases for FOG

Post by philqw78 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:28 am

Legionbuilder wrote:My only problem with his basing method is that - without the correct number of figs on the silly bases - it is freaking impossible to remember what the heck the figs represent - skirmishers, or regular archers - etc etc - drives me crazy BUT I am glad to see more ancients gamers in our club
Think how hard it must have been in the field.

"Now those Roman guys with the chainmail are they armoured or protected, oh they have bows so must be protected, but are they MF or LF, D'oh. Lets wait and see how fast they run, or see if they can run away"
or
"Those chinese blokes with all the tridents and dagger axes and sh*t. Are they HW or just Lt Spear. Are they the anti cav troops that are p*ss poor against mounted or just some poor rubbish?" Luckily this is only a game but someone had to make those distinctions at some point.
phil
putting the arg into argumentative

Legionbuilder
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Re: Using impetus style scenic bases for FOG

Post by Legionbuilder » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:53 am

Yeah I get it
Just try and KILL them all

that is the CHICAGO WAY

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Re: Using impetus style scenic bases for FOG

Post by ravenflight » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:02 am

It is the diorama system that is the main reason I like 10mm figures.

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Re: Using impetus style scenic bases for FOG

Post by Strategos69 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:08 pm

I use double depth bases, but I have not gone for the double front (although I like the results in Impetus, but it is true that it is troublesome in some situations). That is the compromise I have found. Double depth bases are less troublesome. Changing the frontage is what creates most of the problems. For my hoplites I can make sure that they point their spears to the enemy and they fit one behind the other. I also make sure that they fit to the sides. For game purposes I always have three 'solo' bases that I replace when needed. I have found that that is enough.

I am thinking how to do with my Macedonians, which for sure will have their sarissae pointing at the enemy. There are several options. One is to let the pike get out the base. The other is making three deep blocks where the first base is actually empty. You save in number of miniatures, you can still form columns, small dioramas and alike, and the fourth line is removable.

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Re: Using impetus style scenic bases for FOG

Post by ravenflight » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:00 pm

Strategos69 wrote:I am thinking how to do with my Macedonians, which for sure will have their sarissae pointing at the enemy. There are several options. One is to let the pike get out the base. The other is making three deep blocks where the first base is actually empty. You save in number of miniatures, you can still form columns, small dioramas and alike, and the fourth line is removable.
I've thought long and hard about this, and my conclusion is twofold:

1 - either don't do it (not appealing); or,
2 - do it and have a flocked 'spacer' that you place down under the sarissa. By this I mean, you will have a block of say 30x40 that is 'where the front actually is' and the troops file in behind it. When combat is completed you take away the block and advance the troops into position.

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Re: Using impetus style scenic bases for FOG

Post by Strategos69 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:46 pm

Thank you! I have not thought about it but I actually like the second idea very much. It is a good combination that lets having the sarissae pointing at the enemy and solves some game issues without the problems of permanently basing with empty spaces.

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Re: Using impetus style scenic bases for FOG

Post by ravenflight » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:15 am

Strategos69 wrote:Thank you! I have not thought about it but I actually like the second idea very much. It is a good combination that lets having the sarissae pointing at the enemy and solves some game issues without the problems of permanently basing with empty spaces.
Welcome, glad to have helped.

Just remember that you WILL encounter problems. For example if you have some light horse running quickly behind a protracted battle between two pike blocks, you can actually be closer than you actually are etc etc. If that kind of thing doesn't bother you then go for it... I'd love to see the result. Also, some rather 'fussy players' will think you're trying to get an advantage by moving the troops afterwards and all that. I believe they will be in the minority. See, I've had minor problems using 3 figures to a base 60x30mm bases for 25mm men at arms who are supposed to be 'heavy foot' and people saying it's confusing. I think it's only confusing if you don't listen to the description at the start of the game. I'm not trying to get an advantage with it, I just like my troops to look vaguely correct, and having 4 guys jammed so close together that there is no way they would be able to swing their halberd just looks totally wrong to my eye. So, in many ways you'll encounter similar problems, but I think for the most part you'll be fine.

I'll play you happily :)

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Re: Using impetus style scenic bases for FOG

Post by Strategos69 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:08 pm

:D

I always say that miniatures are 99% of the time on the shelf, so I hope they rather look well on them. In fact I plan also basing my 18mm Xyston Romans a little bit deeper (20mm instead of 15mm) than adviced for the same reason (but that is a future project!). Miniatures 30 years ago fitted well in bases. These new (splendid looking) gigants don't.

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