Any news of V2

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madaxeman
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Re: Any news of V2

Post by madaxeman » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:49 am

Thats not at all how I read the announcement from Slitherine on this. My understanding was that FoGPC was being re-written using new, more up to date software, which would also allow it to be ported onto different platforms (ipad..) more easily - Hexwar either didn't want to, or weren't able to do this, hence using a new developer. It remains a Slitherine product, but they have now subcontracted the coding to a bloke in Romania, not one in Scotland.
ianiow wrote:
Jilu wrote:
maybe it should be split from the computer part of the company?

Tabletop and computer are different, and do rarely match.
The computer version of FOG has already begun proceedings to split from the tabletop rules. The founders of digital FOG, Matrix and Hexwar, have handed over the rights to the game to a new Romanian company headed by a former player. The new guy has plenty of ideas of his own where digital FOG should be going in the future, which probably mean diverting from the restrictions of the tabletop rules and implementing the full power of the computer to its best utility and usage. He is calling it FOG v2.0 but whether it will take account of the new tabletop v2.0 rules he has not divulged so far. We are all waiting with baited breath and eagerness to see what the nrew FOG-digital game has install for us.

These are exciting times (at least for the computer crowd).
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Re: Any news of V2

Post by Polkovnik » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:24 am

madaxeman wrote:Thats not at all how I read the announcement from Slitherine on this. My understanding was that FoGPC was being re-written using new, more up to date software, which would also allow it to be ported onto different platforms (ipad..) more easily - Hexwar either didn't want to, or weren't able to do this, hence using a new developer. It remains a Slitherine product, but they have now subcontracted the coding to a bloke in Romania, not one in Scotland.
No, today's announcement refers to FOG Tabletop Wargames Rules.

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Re: Any news of V2

Post by madaxeman » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:39 am

Polkovnik wrote:
madaxeman wrote:Thats not at all how I read the announcement from Slitherine on this. My understanding was that FoGPC was being re-written using new, more up to date software, which would also allow it to be ported onto different platforms (ipad..) more easily - Hexwar either didn't want to, or weren't able to do this, hence using a new developer. It remains a Slitherine product, but they have now subcontracted the coding to a bloke in Romania, not one in Scotland.
No, today's announcement refers to FOG Tabletop Wargames Rules.
Indeed it does. However I - and I suspect all of the other posters in this thread prior to todays announcement about the tabletop rules - were all referring to this thread about the process of re-writing the PC-game rules viewtopic.php?f=84&t=33166
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Re: Any news of V2

Post by Polkovnik » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:55 am

madaxeman wrote: Indeed it does. However I - and I suspect all of the other posters in this thread prior to todays announcement about the tabletop rules - were all referring to this thread about the process of re-writing the PC-game rules viewtopic.php?f=84&t=33166
Oh, sorry. I thought it was about todays announcement. This thread was about V2 of the TT game though - I'm not sure why it has drifted off into discussion of the PC game.

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Re: Any news of V2

Post by david53 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:43 pm

Well its out now what do people think

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Re: Any news of V2

Post by batesmotel » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:53 pm

See the V2 thread in the main forum for lots of reactions. To summarize mine, I think the electronic format for iPAD, MAC and PC only will pretty much mean it will be DOA. Failing the availability for cheaper and more portable platforms, e.g. Android tablets or smart phones, iPhones, etc., I don't see any way this will be accepted as a set of tournament rules. Do you want to have to carry a laptop to a TT tournament and/or expect enough people will invest in an iPad to play?

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Re: Any news of V2

Post by hazelbark » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:37 pm

batesmotel wrote:See the V2 thread in the main forum for lots of reactions. To summarize mine, I think the electronic format for iPAD, MAC and PC only will pretty much mean it will be DOA. Failing the availability for cheaper and more portable platforms, e.g. Android tablets or smart phones, iPhones, etc., I don't see any way this will be accepted as a set of tournament rules. Do you want to have to carry a laptop to a TT tournament and/or expect enough people will invest in an iPad to play?
I agree there are challenges and I have similar concerns.

However I can see the upside in the years to come.
1) Easier to pay 1.99 for a new edition than a new rule book. Sam Mustafa with no marketing has had a decent PDF sales.
2) Clearly the economics of print are challenging for everyone. I interact with the paper printing world and the business mortality rate is high. Even higher among book world. I am not a fan but amazon, et al destroyed the book industry.
3) It will be easier to update points and lists in an electronic world..

There are lots of upsides and you can see some neat applications DOWN THE ROAD. The problem is we are all in the world of first adapter and that is very tough.

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Re: Any news of V2

Post by Gandamar » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:56 pm

Well, as I've mentioned in other threads, I am quite in favor of an electronic distribution myself, it's the chosen platform I have a problem with. I mean, why not release it as a PDF book, as many others have done? It has all of the 3 advantages you mention in your post, as the current RPG market has demonstrated, and I would add a fourth that I'm pretty sure many people here will love:

4) It allows to make a hard copy through a home or office printer, or even a print shop if you're so inclined.

What's not to like about that?

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Re: Any news of V2

Post by philqw78 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:18 pm

The chosen method is, lets say, innovative for wargames rules. But for most wargamers its very expensive initially and I can see it turning a lot of players off.
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Re: Any news of V2

Post by Jilu » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:38 pm

IanB3406 wrote:So...with the announcement I wonder..

Break with osprey?

Unhappy lgs? It's where I play my games.....and what they can sell matters....one local store is pushing NAW as figs are sold with the rules......not even sure if he is stocking fogn although I made a point to order my copy there....very few stores stock ancients, none in my town as they move off the shelf slowly. If I'm an owner certainly fog players may have trouble getting tables versus the fow, wh40k crowd or others....

Certainly I'm happy to have rules on the iPad, and have a copy of force on force from osprey as well as dbm 3.2....however us gaming is different than the uk.....it's mostly at the lgs.....

Interesting times.
i am not buying an ipad or other galaxy tab to play ...

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Re: Any news of V2

Post by zoltan » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:53 am

philqw78 wrote:The chosen method is, lets say, innovative for wargames rules. But for most wargamers its very expensive initially and I can see it turning a lot of players off.
Necessity is the mother of invention, even in an era if greater copyright protection.
:-0)

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Re: Any news of V2

Post by philqw78 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:29 am

Yes, some people may get inventive
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Re: Any news of V2

Post by grahambriggs » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:33 am

Gandamar wrote:Well, as I've mentioned in other threads, I am quite in favor of an electronic distribution myself, it's the chosen platform I have a problem with. I mean, why not release it as a PDF book, as many others have done? It has all of the 3 advantages you mention in your post, as the current RPG market has demonstrated, and I would add a fourth that I'm pretty sure many people here will love:

4) It allows to make a hard copy through a home or office printer, or even a print shop if you're so inclined.

What's not to like about that?
The website https://www.abannan.com/holding/ does mention pdf

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Re: Any news of V2

Post by batesmotel » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:36 am

The reference to PDF on the web site seems to indicate that a publisher can use source in PDF format to generate the app, not that the app will allow the user to export/generate PDF.

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Re: Any news of V2

Post by Three » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:43 am

Jilu wrote:
IanB3406 wrote:So...with the announcement I wonder..

Break with osprey?

Unhappy lgs? It's where I play my games.....and what they can sell matters....one local store is pushing NAW as figs are sold with the rules......not even sure if he is stocking fogn although I made a point to order my copy there....very few stores stock ancients, none in my town as they move off the shelf slowly. If I'm an owner certainly fog players may have trouble getting tables versus the fow, wh40k crowd or others....

Certainly I'm happy to have rules on the iPad, and have a copy of force on force from osprey as well as dbm 3.2....however us gaming is different than the uk.....it's mostly at the lgs.....

Interesting times.
i am not buying an ipad or other galaxy tab to play ...
+1

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Re: Any news of V2

Post by grahambriggs » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:55 pm

batesmotel wrote:The reference to PDF on the web site seems to indicate that a publisher can use source in PDF format to generate the app, not that the app will allow the user to export/generate PDF.

Chris
Yes you're quite right. Iain McNeil has confirmed that they will be non-printable to start with, which means I can't see a way that I'll be using them, though I'd like to - most of the changes seem positive.

Seems a bit odd. A physical game with rules that can't be made physical.

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Re: Any news of V2

Post by Gandamar » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:07 pm

grahambriggs wrote:Seems a bit odd. A physical game with rules that can't be made physical.
Yeah, nice paradox there... I still think protected PDF's should have been the way to go, as there is another problem with most digital formats: page numbers.

Let's take a look at the Kindle format, for example. The Kindle books have no fixed page sizes, only a continuous stream of text, pictures, diagrams, etc. This makes the books easier to adapt to many different devices. I have some Kindle books on my laptop and on my Android phone, and they both read quite well, but also quite differently. The problem with this is there is no way I can say to anyone "look at page 84", as there is no page 84 in the text. that's no big deal if you have named sections, just search the name and you're set, but if that particular section is too long and you need a very specific line to reference, that complicates things a bit.

On the other hand, PDF's retain the classic page format and the advantages this brings (easy page reference, for example), and they're still easily readable on almost every current device available in the market. I still don't understand why restrict your target audience by leaving so many devices out of the equation. :?

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Re: Any news of V2

Post by david53 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:21 pm

grahambriggs wrote:
batesmotel wrote:The reference to PDF on the web site seems to indicate that a publisher can use source in PDF format to generate the app, not that the app will allow the user to export/generate PDF.

Chris
Yes you're quite right. Iain McNeil has confirmed that they will be non-printable to start with, which means I can't see a way that I'll be using them, though I'd like to - most of the changes seem positive.

Seems a bit odd. A physical game with rules that can't be made physical.
Not sure why a table top set of rules would then move to digital set only. A lot of people will not have the ability to get the equipment to have the rules.

Like Phil has said it will force some people away from playing V2, in the worst case it could split the gamers V1 or V2 digital or hard copy.

Not sure about this. I would have liked a book but this way no osprey I take it.

regards

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Re: Any news of V2

Post by stecal » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:42 pm

maybe they should look at putting the book up on Amazon Print on demand.
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Re: Any news of V2

Post by hood_mick » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:50 am

Or Lulu.

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