Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

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hazelbark
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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by hazelbark » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:42 pm

Polkovnik wrote:And here's a post on TMP about them :
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=273862
Any interest I had in your rules died with the braggin of Medieval huns versus Orcs. OMG.
:shock:
NKE versus Crusaders is bad enough.
:roll:

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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by philqw78 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:48 pm

Jilu wrote:ok why not:

sell pdf versions with a code, all players receive a unique code.
to be in the ELO rankings it is that code that is used
I've been playing without a set of rules for nearly a year now. Does this mean I should not be in the ELO rankings.

Though these Rankings are possibly run on a slitherine server they are not run by slitherine so could easily move.
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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by philqw78 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:57 pm

Torquemada wrote:If this is the future of fog and people dont like what they see then what other options are there for wargaming ancients?.
Well, FoG 1 is a decent set of rules.

Therfore since we have a number of National Wargames Federations/Societies said societies could make their own rules on how FoG v1 is to be played in their society/federation. They could put these 'clarifications' as a file that is free to download.

If many societies agreed they could have a Worlds.

Getting people to agree is the problem.
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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by Torquemada » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:16 pm

They tried the same with wrg 6th edition. The outcome was a farce, with individual umpires doing as they pleased, or incorrectly worded clarifications / ammendments being ripped apart by rule lawyers to suit there own benefit. Without clear guidance from the authors it won't work.

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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by hazelbark » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:28 pm

Torquemada wrote:They tried the same with wrg 6th edition. The outcome was a farce, with individual umpires doing as they pleased, or incorrectly worded clarifications / ammendments being ripped apart by rule lawyers to suit there own benefit. Without clear guidance from the authors it won't work.
Of course it functioned for a decade with DBM.

Or course having played FOG 1 in 3 hemispheres of the globe there were different interpretations to the printed published word.

People should stop focusing on how we work around this...for the time being. Let's see what actually is coughed out on the release date. Not owning an iPad i guess I will wait for what eventually follows.

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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by dave_r » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:42 pm

hazelbark wrote:Or course having played FOG 1 in 3 hemispheres of the globe there were different interpretations to the printed published word.
So, the Northern Hemisphere, the Southern Hemisphere.... which other half of the world have you played in?
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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by philqw78 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:47 pm

dave_r wrote:
hazelbark wrote:Or course having played FOG 1 in 3 hemispheres of the globe there were different interpretations to the printed published word.
So, the Northern Hemisphere, the Southern Hemisphere.... which other half of the world have you played in?
Surely Dan has visited 4 but sadly played in only three halves of the world
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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by philqw78 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:51 pm

hazelbark wrote:
Torquemada wrote: Let's see what actually is coughed out on the release date. Not owning an iPad i guess I will wait for what eventually follows.
But Dan you will get nothing on the release date, you don't own an iPad.

Maybe you will get a free entry to the Fourth Hemisphere wargaming championship
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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by dave_r » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:55 pm

philqw78 wrote:
dave_r wrote:
hazelbark wrote:Or course having played FOG 1 in 3 hemispheres of the globe there were different interpretations to the printed published word.
So, the Northern Hemisphere, the Southern Hemisphere.... which other half of the world have you played in?
Surely Dan has visited 4 but sadly played in only three halves of the world
Since a hemisphere is half of the world, then there can only be two hemispheres. Typically Northern and Southern, rather than East and West. That was the cold war....
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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by Polkovnik » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:56 pm

hazelbark wrote:
Polkovnik wrote:And here's a post on TMP about them :
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=273862
Any interest I had in your rules died with the braggin of Medieval huns versus Orcs. OMG.
:shock:
NKE versus Crusaders is bad enough.
:roll:

Yes, they do cover Fantasy as well as Historic I'm afraid, but you may have seen my comment further down on the TMP post :
Note that when these rules are finalised (after some more playtesting, especially relating to the points system), I will release a version called Ancient & Medieval Battles, which has all the Fantasy rules removed. So purely Ancients and Medieval gamers will be able to use these rules without any fantasy elements cluttering up the rules (or offending their sensibilities :)).

Any further discussion about this would be better on TMP or the Yahoo group I think.

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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by dave_r » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:57 pm

philqw78 wrote:
hazelbark wrote:
Torquemada wrote: Let's see what actually is coughed out on the release date. Not owning an iPad i guess I will wait for what eventually follows.
But Dan you will get nothing on the release date, you don't own an iPad.

Maybe you will get a free entry to the Fourth Hemisphere wargaming championship
That is to do with flying over a large body of water prior to gaming. I have become acquainted with this phenomonen.
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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by Polkovnik » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:57 pm

hazelbark wrote:Let's see what actually is coughed out on the release date. Not owning an iPad i guess I will wait for what eventually follows.
And do we know when that might be ?

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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by batesmotel » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:47 pm

I believe that JD (or maybe Iain) posted it would be 2-3 weeks. Apparently the current gating factor is Apple approving the app for the iPad market place. (The whole Apple overly restrictive control policy is another reason I never intend to buy an iPad besides the price. I expect that the Mac and PC versions will be released simultaneously since they don't require specific approval.

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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by philqw78 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:34 pm

dave_r wrote:Since a hemisphere is half of the world, then there can only be two hemispheres. Typically Northern and Southern, rather than East and West. That was the cold war....
Really Dave?

Sarcasm Dave.

Though I thought you might have caught it when I said three halves first time around I had best point it out to you this time.
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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by dave_r » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:46 pm

philqw78 wrote:
dave_r wrote:Since a hemisphere is half of the world, then there can only be two hemispheres. Typically Northern and Southern, rather than East and West. That was the cold war....
Really Dave?

Sarcasm Dave.

Though I thought you might have caught it when I said three halves first time around I had best point it out to you this time.
I thought you were having a go at Dan for not turning up to his jaunt to New Zealand. It must be stressed he did turn up. Largely to give points to the locals :)
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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by Simpleton » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:53 am

This thread has grown incredibly in just the 3 days since Slitherine posted the news that the v2.0 would be digital. Now I own a laptop (which I am using right now), an Android powered tablet, and an Android powered smartphone. Of my wargaming colleagues only a few do not have access to at least a PC. However, while these rules can be played at home with a friend, they are primarily played away from home in a tournament setting. Ian and JD have explained Slitherine's rationale for publishing an electronic version of the rules and from their perspective it makes business sense since you don't have the cost of printing and warehousing copies of a rule-set that may take a while to sell off.

However, I don't think they did their research. In the whole world only so many people buy wargames rules. Their market for v2.0 will primarily be people who currently own 1.0 Is this release going to capture a large chunk of this base? The answer seems to be no and this is coming from the group that uses their PC/MACs a lot! It seems Slitherine put their cart before their horse. You want to get v2.0 into the hands of as many 1.0 users as possible. When FOGAM came out it was an instant hit. People dropped their other rules to play it and have been enjoying it ever since. Now you cannot repeat that same magic, but you do want a positive BUZZ at conventions. In America people don't buy rules straight from publishers or from Amazon. They walk around the tables at conventions and look at gamers, we look at figures, how they're based, are people enjoying their games, we ask questions. We go to the vendors, we look at books/booklets and compare prices, pictures, I look at army lists if they are released at the same time. The idea that a teenager is going to hop onto Slitherine or Osprey's site for an electronic rule-set without ever seeing the game in action is unlikely.

My advice to the powers that be is to make 2.0 for the base of 1.0 purchasers first. A PDF is the best format. Get some out free for dealers, give them an incentive to promote your rules. Put out the App version later (and I might add with Android/Kindle/Nook support). After all maximum gaming is the goal, then we all win.

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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by Simpleton » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:19 am

I found this on the field of Glory website. Are these the entire changes? If they are the issue should be resolved since we can just copy this into our 1.0 books.

CHANGEs in Version 2

Many clarifications made to wording.

Skirmishers less slippery, with reduced ability to slow enemy movement and less ability to concentrate shooting without risk.
Shooting range reduced to 3 MU for LH (and single-ranked cavalry) with bow.
Effective range reduced to 3 MU for LF with bow, longbow, crossbow or sling.
Evaders cannot turn at any table edge to avoid evading off the table.
Second moves can go to just beyond 4 MUs of enemy skirmishers.
Turn and move and expand and move – distance reduced by 2 MUs.

Drilled troops less manoeuvrable and undrilled troops less unmanoeuvrable:
Move with 90 degree turn or expansion reduced by 2 MUs.
Turn, retired and turn again move reduced to 2 MU, but also possible for single ranked non-shock cavalry, camelry, chariots.
No wheel or double wheel can exceed a total of 90 degrees.
Wheeling/short-moving by Other Undrilled without a commander only complex within 4 MUs of any enemy skirmishers or 6 MUs of any other enemy (including the enemy camp but not an enemy commander’s base).
Undrilled other troops with a general can make a stationary 90 or 180 degree turn without taking a CMT.

Move Distances:
Movement distances of HF increased in Uneven and Difficult.
Armoured Knights move distances increased to same as Cavalry.
Elephants move increased in Difficult.
Heavy Artillery can pivot.
Bonus movement distances for columns in terrain removed.
FRAGMENTED troops have their maximum movement distance reduced by 1 MU (after any other deductions). However, they do not need to take a CMT to move.

Very large (“swarm”) armies easier to break:
Break point of army cannot exceed the total points value of the army divided by 50, rounded up. (e.g. 16 in the case of an 800 point army).
Battle troops (i.e. Cavalry, Camelry, Light Chariots) which evade of table count as 2 attrition points.

Commanders limited in how many battle groups they can command as a battle line – making Field Commanders more worthwhile:
A Troop Commander cannot command a battle line of more than 2 battle groups.
A Field Commander cannot command a battle line of more than 4 battle groups.
An Inspired Commander cannot command a battle line of more than 6 battle groups.
Commanders cannot affect the re-rolls of scythed chariots and artillery.
Only commanders depicted on elephants (and so specified in the special instructions to their army list) can affect the re-rolls of elephants.
Commanders depicted on elephants cannot affect the re-rolls of other mounted troops.

Interpenetration anomalies prevented:
Leapfrogging prevented.
“Teleport” interpenetrations prevented.

Elephants improved:
Get 3 dice per base in impact combat.

Shooting:
Ranges changed as above.
Non-single-ranked Protected and Unprotected cavalry less vulnerable to shooting.
Crossbows (and longbows) get + POA vs non-single-ranked Protected and Armoured cavalry.
Support shooting no longer on a - POA.

Close combat effects of superior armour reduced:
A single level of armour advantage does not give a + POA if this would result in an overall ++ POA.
This means that Barbarian foot are no longer a walkover for Romans.

Changes to rules for rear support and routing make historical multi-line formations more viable:
Rear Support:
Bases from other BGs do not have to all be directly behind the supported BG – bases in edge contact with such bases also count.
After the initial rout, routers can
Shift up to 2 base widths to avoid friends etc.

Pass through friendly drilled troops as a permitted interpenetration. [Hence they don’t drop cohesion].


Ability of high quality troops to keep fighting despite heavy losses reduced:
CT modifier of -1 for each 25% of original strength lost.
Broken battle groups at or below 50% of their original strength cannot be rallied, and are removed at the end of the JAP.

Restricted area:
Any battle group capable of doing so can move straight back perpendicular to its own rear. A battle group in the restricted area of enemy even partly behind it rear can move straight forwards. These moves are permitted even if the battle group ends its move no longer in front of the enemy battle group.
Moves by pinned battle groups can include contraction of files that are not in any restricted area.

Cohesion test:
First three Cohesion Test modifiers altered to:
Battle group suffered at least 1 HP2B from shooting or close combat -1
Battle group testing for losing impact phase combat -1
Battle group testing for losing melee phase combat in which it received at least 2 more hits than it inflicted -1
Modifier for losses is now -1 for each 25% lost.
Extra -1 modifier if testing for seeing C-in-C lost.
Heavy chariots inflict a -1 CT modifier on enemy they beat at impact. (Like lancers in V1)

Set-up rules:
Cataphract camels don’t count towards initiative modifiers.
The player winning the pre-battle initiative roll can choose whether to keep the initiative or pass it over to his opponent. (Thus getting to move first).
Player without initiative chooses his terrain pieces first.
Roads are placed last during terrain set-up so that they cannot be used to block other terrain placement.
1 extra Brush added to Steppe territory.
Terrain “touching side edge” can touch river instead.
Deployment area for non-skirmishers increased to 12 MUs from long table edge.
Flank Marches: Any battle groups that cannot fit onto the table on the turn of arrival will never arrive and count as straggling.
Dismounted heavily armoured knights have HW capability.

Other miscellaneous changes:
Wheel in a charge must be at the start of the charge and direction is declared before any charge responses are declared.
New rule prevents enemy from blocking turns.
VMD not taken into account when decided whether shock troops need to test not to charge.
Skirmishers MUST evade non-skirmishers in the open.
FRAGGed troopscharged in flank or rear which would drop a cohesion level on impact, instead break immediately without testing or waiting to be contacted.
A move into contact with the enemy camp is treated as a charge. As such, it can be intercepted.
Only foot battle troops can sack a fortified camp.
A battle group that did not charge this move is not required to conform if doing so will expose it to a flank or rear charge by an enemy battle group next turn (unless a flank or rear charge by that battle group is possible even if it does not conform).
Heavy weapon capability no longer cancelled by skilled swordsmen or skirmishers.
Foot defending field fortifications (but not portable defences) need not pursue broken enemy.
Field Fortifications:
If any are used, the army must have at least 4 base-widths of them.
Troops must have front or side edge touching FF to count defending.
Battle groups facing in more than one direction (including those in orb or in a “kinked” column) cannot claim rear support.
“Kinked” columns cannot intercept, evade or declare charges, but are not exempt from charging without orders.

Improvements to selected army lists included in rulebook.

The following armies (but not ally contingents derived from them) can have up to 1/3 of their battle groups of the specified type upgraded to Superior, representing separately deployed picked warriors. Such battle groups cannot exceed 8 bases.
Early Nomad (Foot warriors)
Early Highland Raiders (Warriors)
Early Libyan (Swordsmen)
Illyrian (Warriors)
Ancient Spanish (Scutarii or heavy caetrati)
Early German (Warriors)
Early Scots-Irish (Warriors)
Caledonian (Warriors)
Early Visigothic or Early Vandal (Warriors)
Early Frankish, Alamanni, Burgundi, Limigantes, Quadi, Rugii, Suebi or Turcilingi (Warriors)
The minimum size of battle groups including auxiliary foot with Light Spear capability in Dominate and Foederate Roman lists is increased to 6.
Imitation legionaries in Pontic and Galatian (but not Numidian) armies gain the option to be Armoured.
All Byzantine Cavalry battle groups classified as ½ Lancers, Swordsmen, ½ Bow, Swordsmen, gain the option to have all bases classified as Bow*, Lancers, Swordsmen.
All Byzantine Cavalry battle groups with all bases classified as Bow, Swordsmen gain the option to have all bases classified as Light Horse (same armour class etc.).
Christian Nubian armies cannot have more than ½ of their Medium Foot archers battle groups as Superior.
All Drilled Average Knights specified as “mercenary” gain the option to be Undrilled Superior.
Later Ottoman Turkish armies cannot have more than ½ of their Timariots battle groups as Superior.
Late Heian to Muromachi Japanese can have up to ½ of their “Bushi and followers” battle groups as Superior.

Recommended army sizes and table sizes changed to encourage more variety in tournament formats.

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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by hazelbark » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:50 am

dave_r wrote:
hazelbark wrote:Or course having played FOG 1 in 3 hemispheres of the globe there were different interpretations to the printed published word.
So, the Northern Hemisphere, the Southern Hemisphere.... which other half of the world have you played in?
Sorry I forgot how restricted and antiquated your thinking was.
It probably explains why you are so frequently defeated by 'mericans.
Well at least this amused you for a nano-second to distract you from pulling out Phil's hair over the 2.0 situation.

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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by philqw78 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:27 am

hazelbark wrote: distract you from pulling out Phil's hair over the 2.0 situation.
I can't remember tha last time anyone was able to pull my hair Dan. And Dave wouldn't fit the bill to be the bloke to do it even if anyone could these days.

Unless you mean metaphorically, then he does it all the F%<&ing time
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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Post by philqw78 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:32 am

Simpleton wrote:I found this on the field of Glory website. Are these the entire changes? If they are the issue should be resolved since we can just copy this into our 1.0 books.
Considering the first sentence obviously not
CHANGEs in Version 2

Many clarifications made to wording.
And there is no mention of camels and soft sand.
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