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Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:43 pm
by Jhykronos
Interesting.

My thoughts:

1. I'm actually favorably inclined to a digital format, though I would have preferred one that was readable on my Kindle (not the Tablet, just the simple e-reader).

2. Lack of ability to make hard copies is a HUGE problem. Not a showstopper for me... anything on the PC is obviously going to be printable with enough work... but very annoying.

3. It occurs to me that the announcement of changes is probably a good 75% of the way to being an ammendment sheet anyway... add some actual rules wording to the interpenetration and other sections and we could be playing 2.0 tomorrow.

- JDF

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:29 pm
by NicktheLemming
GHGAustin wrote:
So, anyone hear of any good alternatives for FOG?

I prefer Impetus, and the Basic Impetus is free, so you can tell people to check it out and then sell them the proper version (with supps) when they like what they see.

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:42 pm
by GHGAustin
NicktheLemming wrote:
GHGAustin wrote:
So, anyone hear of any good alternatives for FOG?

I prefer Impetus, and the Basic Impetus is free, so you can tell people to check it out and then sell them the proper version (with supps) when they like what they see.
Yeah, one of my guys has suggested Impetus. I have had it in the store, but FOG dominated, so it did not get much play. I'll have to see about getting some copies again.

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:27 pm
by dave_r
NicktheLemming wrote:
GHGAustin wrote:
So, anyone hear of any good alternatives for FOG?

I prefer Impetus, and the Basic Impetus is free, so you can tell people to check it out and then sell them the proper version (with supps) when they like what they see.
I heard the comments from a fairly well respected veteran of the wargaming scene and Impetus is utterly broken.

With both BG and Slitherine managing to annoy their fan base it seems there is a gap in the market!

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:36 pm
by zoltan
ethan wrote:If this is really a labor of love that is no longer commercially viable, release it onto the internet and go open source. That IMO is the future of something like this. Set-up a committee to oversee things and just make it free/donation-ware.

Right now, this is going to be something that Slitherine payed to develop that won't be played or purchased.
Yep, cut your losses now."Sell" the rights to the hobby for a peppercorn and let the illuminati take over management by social media (now that's really innovative, way of the future etc etc...) and thus remove the distracting, loss-making albatross 'round your profit-motive neck. Let's the business focus on (electronic) lines that make money (all power to that). Garner big ups from the hobby for giving something back.

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:39 pm
by urbanbunny1
From my point of view, you have to be able to print off a copy of the rules.

Now, I'm a heavy iPad user as many of my Central London club team members will know, but, I dread the thought of having to take my iPad to a comp to flick thru the rules. The amount of times I've bumped something off the table, spilt my pint (yes, something to cry about) or something other wise stupid, I can just see my shiny iPad go off the table. Either that, or some half wit nick my iPad when I've turned around to heckle Paddy.

I love the idea of the rules being digital, but you need to have a method where the end player can print the rules off. When I get a new set of rules, I write lots of tips and tricks in the rules to remind myself of things that I need to know, or clarify in the way I understand.

Osprey already have this in place with their partnership with Ambush Alley. They allow you to buy either a physical copy of the rules, or, wait for it.... a PDF. You can then happily print the rules off at home and go from there. I can use these on my iPad, iPhone, mac, PC, android tablet, XP, Vista, Unix or what ever platform I choose. Dead easy and no ongoing support cost to you.

I know that there will be some piracy, as there is always some tight wad who won't pay for the rules, but I would imagine most gamers, especially competition players, would pay for them. Let's face it, one 15mm army is worth more than the rules.

Please don't go purely digital, it will turn players away.

Now, who do I give my cash to?

Slim

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:54 pm
by Fenton
dave_r wrote:
NicktheLemming wrote:
GHGAustin wrote:
So, anyone hear of any good alternatives for FOG?

I prefer Impetus, and the Basic Impetus is free, so you can tell people to check it out and then sell them the proper version (with supps) when they like what they see.
I heard the comments from a fairly well respected veteran of the wargaming scene and Impetus is utterly broken.

With both BG and Slitherine managing to annoy their fan base it seems there is a gap in the market!
What does he mean by broken?

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:08 pm
by NicktheLemming
dave_r wrote: I heard the comments from a fairly well respected veteran of the wargaming scene and Impetus is utterly broken.

We've been playing it quite a bit at the club for the last year or two, and it's been fine so far. What did he claim was broken about it, do you remember?

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:11 pm
by marty
They autobreak when they have lost 3 bases.

However, if they broke through cohesion loss, they cannot rally (and are removed at the end of the JAP) if they have lost 2 bases.

They also get -2 CT modifier for having lost 2 x 25% when they are on 2 bases.
Good thing the e-format will allow points changes then because if this is it on the "make superiors less of a default choice" front they still need to cost more.

But, as has already been mentioned, if it aint printable this isn't going to matter anyway.

Martin

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:26 pm
by Polkovnik
dave_r wrote:I heard the comments from a fairly well respected veteran of the wargaming scene and Impetus is utterly broken.
What a ridiculous coment to make !
I have played Impetus and there were things I didn't like about it so I sold my set of rules, but please don't make comments like that unless you actually know what you are talking about.

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:48 pm
by footslogger
shadowdragon wrote:Some random observations:





4) An e-reader is no more cumbersome than a rule booklet on the gaming table. In fact it's more convenient when you can cart along all of rules, army list books, etc. Book marking important sections is dead easy. You can highlight sections and add notes (e.g., FAQ references).
My wife has one. Loves it. Never leaves the house.

I wouldn't leave an e-reader laying on the table at the LGS like I would a set of rules. Replacement cost is high. Pain is high.

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:52 pm
by footslogger
I'm very supportive of an electronic version, but it has to be printable.

I won't buy one that isn't.

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:13 am
by dave_r
Polkovnik wrote:
dave_r wrote:I heard the comments from a fairly well respected veteran of the wargaming scene and Impetus is utterly broken.
What a ridiculous coment to make !
I have played Impetus and there were things I didn't like about it so I sold my set of rules, but please don't make comments like that unless you actually know what you are talking about.
Why is it a ridiculous comment to repeat something that somebody who knows what they are talking about describe the game? Get of your high horse.

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:14 am
by dave_r
NicktheLemming wrote:
dave_r wrote: I heard the comments from a fairly well respected veteran of the wargaming scene and Impetus is utterly broken.

We've been playing it quite a bit at the club for the last year or two, and it's been fine so far. What did he claim was broken about it, do you remember?
It was to do with Light Horse. As I remember it was to do with around five bases shooting or fighting one base with no reply.

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:43 am
by NicktheLemming
dave_r wrote:
NicktheLemming wrote:
dave_r wrote: I heard the comments from a fairly well respected veteran of the wargaming scene and Impetus is utterly broken.

We've been playing it quite a bit at the club for the last year or two, and it's been fine so far. What did he claim was broken about it, do you remember?
It was to do with Light Horse. As I remember it was to do with around five bases shooting or fighting one base with no reply.
Was he claiming that the game is broken because if you gang up 5 to 1, you're likely to wipe out your opponent?

Because that is not even close to broken.

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:36 am
by PyrrhicVictory
Yes, the developers do need to be aware of the changing environment, and keep up with developing technologies. I see no issue with this. But there are limitations to the new technology, and there is also the simple issue of customer preference. I think the developers are willing to risk alienation of their existing customer base to pursue potential customers. How do you plan on reaching these potential customers? Hoping on impulse purchases? Most players got into FoG by word of mouth, or they saw someone playing the game and it caught their attention. How do new players learn to play? By playing existing players. By the vast majority of the responses so far, you are in danger of losing a lot of existing players.

Then there is the issue of availability. Yes, if you have a computer, you can have a copy. But if you want to have a copy with you, you have to be carrying either a laptop or an iPad. Not only that, but the rules are an app that must be purchased for each device. At what I am going to guess is $25-$30 a piece, plus the cost of either a laptop or iPad? No.

Allow me to say this. I am a potential customer. At this particular point, with the information so far presented, you will not be having this potential sale.

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:55 am
by wildone
6) The plight of those who don't have e-readers / tablets is real. A good suggestion is a pdf file with just v2.0 amendments that can be purchased and printed since v2.0 isn't that different from v1.0. One advantage is that it retains some of the value of unsold books that are still in stores. It's an advantage to slitherine too as it heads off illegal amendment sheets being developed and distributed. I expect that those people who already have an iPad will still buy the e-version of v2.0 and not just the pdf amendment file.
Yes!
I don't have an e-reader, tablet or Ipad and I'm not planning to buy one anytime soon (If i win lotto I will reconsider). So the ability to buy and download a PDF on my PC is a viable option for me.

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:24 am
by wildone
Interpenetration anomalies prevented:
Leapfrogging prevented.
“Teleport” interpenetrations prevented.
Big discussion amongst local gamers as to what is meant by "Leapfrogging"

Is it normal interpenetration ie. LF through HF or something else.

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:15 am
by zoltan
Although JD's 'press release' was dated 12 July it was Friday the 13th in my town. Perhaps an ill-omen to include the Decline and Fall army list book graphic on the main site announcement. We're doomed Mr Mana thrrringg, we're doomed........

Re: Field of Glory goes 2.0 !

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:57 am
by kevinj
Big discussion amongst local gamers as to what is meant by "Leapfrogging"
Leapfrogging is exploiting the current interpenetration rules to gain extra move distance.