What allies for Italo-Norman & Later Sicilian, please?

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vichussar
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What allies for Italo-Norman & Later Sicilian, please?

Post by vichussar » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:36 pm

Hanging out for the July release of "Oath of Fealty" for my Sicilians!!
Meanwhile can some-one enlighten me on what allies they have if any so I can get the appropriate companion books if other than "Oath"?

John Mc

P.S. Oath of Fealty comes out in July, my sons birthday; Empire of the Dragon for my son's Q'in Chinese due in September, my birthday. :roll:

vichussar
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Oath Of Fealty out in the U.S.!?

Post by vichussar » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:03 am

According to my local Osprey supplier "Oath of Fealty" is out in the U.S. if so can somebody give an idea od how it looks and give me the allies for the Sicilian lists please :mrgreen:

Ghaznavid
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Re: Oath Of Fealty out in the U.S.!?

Post by Ghaznavid » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:35 am

vichussar wrote:According to my local Osprey supplier "Oath of Fealty" is out in the U.S. if so can somebody give an idea od how it looks and give me the allies for the Sicilian lists please :mrgreen:
Well it's more like 2.5 lists (the last Norman Kings + the Staufer period and later the Vespers and Aragonese dominated period) with significantly different flavours (based mainly on the saracens earlier and almughavars later). Maybe you could be a bit more specific?
Allies are only available during and after the Vespers and are limited to Aragonese and Communal Italian.
Karsten


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Post by berthier » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:22 pm

As soon as my copy arrives, I will update the Allied List Index on the Field of Glory website but someone might be able to help you out before then.

Christopher Anders

vichussar
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Post by vichussar » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:56 pm

Thanks all,

In DBM I ran it as early to middle Sicilians so I'm more interested in the Norman kings up to Frederick II but I do plan to add Amulgavars to play early 1300's. I just need to know what other "Companion Books" I may need if any for the ally lists.

John Mc

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Post by rbodleyscott » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:15 pm

vichussar wrote:In DBM I ran it as early to middle Sicilians so I'm more interested in the Norman kings up to Frederick II but I do plan to add Amulgavars to play early 1300's.
Karsten wrote the list so he is the "horse's mouth".

I would point out one major difference from the DBM list (which was something of a fudge for the later period) which is that you cannot use almughavars and Saracens in the same army. This is based on a more careful analysis of the phases of the historical armies. Essentially Charles of Anjou inherited the Saracen troops and ran them down to nothing before the Sicilian revolt brought in the almughavars. There is no evidence that the Aragonese party ever used Saracen troops, and they had already effectively ceased to exist as a military force.

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Post by Ghaznavid » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:51 pm

vichussar wrote: In DBM I ran it as early to middle Sicilians so I'm more interested in the Norman kings up to Frederick II but I do plan to add Amulgavars to play early 1300's. I just need to know what other "Companion Books" I may need if any for the ally lists.
For early 1300ish and before, no other companions books are required. Both the Communal Italians and the Early Crown of Aragon ally lists are contained in Oath. The Sicilian list does extends enough however that the Aragonese allies are eventually covered by the Medieval Crown of Aragon List (from Storm of Arrows, starting in 1336).
Karsten


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Post by whitehorses » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:49 pm

Wouldn't hold your breath on the books being prompt, got an email from Amazon to say the delivery date's been delayed so might not be until August they arrive now :(

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Post by vichussar » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:52 pm

Ghaznavid wrote: For early 1300ish and before, no other companions books are required. Both the Communal Italians and the Early Crown of Aragon ally lists are contained in Oath. The Sicilian list does extends enough however that the Aragonese allies are eventually covered by the Medieval Crown of Aragon List (from Storm of Arrows, starting in 1336).
Thanks for this Karsten,

I suspected the Aragon ally for the later period but the Communal Italian opotion is new. BTW DBM gave you an option for Crusaders for circa 1230 for Freddy II's crusades centure, is there any reference in Oath?

John

vichussar
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Post by vichussar » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:13 am

rbodleyscott wrote:I would point out one major difference from the DBM list (which was something of a fudge for the later period) which is that you cannot use almughavars and Saracens in the same army. This is based on a more careful analysis of the phases of the historical armies. Essentially Charles of Anjou inherited the Saracen troops and ran them down to nothing before the Sicilian revolt brought in the almughavars. There is no evidence that the Aragonese party ever used Saracen troops, and they had already effectively ceased to exist as a military force.
Thanks Richard,

I mainly played Sicilians from 1150-1236 for the Reg Generals and Reg Saracens etc. I am after the Amulghavars more for list completeness :twisted:. I have every troop option for my DBM Mithridatics :roll:, and barring allied contingents I just need some Amulghavars, Aragonese Lt Horse and Lt x-bowmen for the later end and Griffons (aka Sicilian Greeks) for the early end of the list to do the same for the Sicilians.

John Mc

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Post by nikgaukroger » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:43 am

whitehorses wrote:Wouldn't hold your breath on the books being prompt, got an email from Amazon to say the delivery date's been delayed so might not be until August they arrive now :(

Saw a copy on sale yesterday at Tewkesbury - they're out there if you look :D
Nik Gaukroger

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If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith

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Ghaznavid
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Post by Ghaznavid » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:34 am

vichussar wrote:I suspected the Aragon ally for the later period but the Communal Italian opotion is new. BTW DBM gave you an option for Crusaders for circa 1230 for Freddy II's crusades centure, is there any reference in Oath?
Nope, Friedrich was excommunicated at the time he undertook his 'crusade' so found little assistance from the crusader kingdoms in outremer. Also he managed to get (most of) Jerusalem from Sultan Al-Kamil by diplomacy alone. He never fought a battle in outremer, so there is no case for a crusader ally.

Btw. I misremembered the timeframe for the Communal Italian allies, they are in fact only available before 1282, not during or after the vespers. (Actually the main reason they got in are the various Italian cities allied with the Staufers.)


@whithorses: At least in Germany that's pretty normal, so far Amazon.de has send such a mail every time a new army book came out, the books were always delivered on time though.
Karsten


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Post by babyshark » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:24 pm

whitehorses wrote:Wouldn't hold your breath on the books being prompt, got an email from Amazon to say the delivery date's been delayed so might not be until August they arrive now :(
Mwahahahahaha!

I think that the old saw about "death and taxes" will need to be amended soon to include FoG shipments from Amazon.

Marc

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