POTZBLITZ mod Update V3.4 (DEC 11th)

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Robotron
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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by Robotron » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:10 pm

@Vokt: Sorry, that will have to wait. Right now I don't feel like creating a bazillion of new graphics (at least ten for each kind of unit) needed to replace the current mishmash of pseudo-NATO-tactical-style unit symbols the designers put into the game. I'm just a hobbyist doing this for fun and no profit besides you guys telling me you enjoy the mod, which is great but there's only so much time a single person can invest into a project. :)

Vokt
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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by Vokt » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:29 pm

Robotron wrote:@Vokt: Sorry, that will have to wait. Right now I don't feel like creating a bazillion of new graphics (at least ten for each kind of unit) needed to replace the current mishmash of pseudo-NATO-tactical-style unit symbols the designers put into the game. I'm just a hobbyist doing this for fun and no profit besides you guys telling me you enjoy the mod, which is great but there's only so much time a single person can invest into a project. :)
That's right and keep up the good work!

mhl67
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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by mhl67 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:31 am

I really like this mod, but there seem to be several problems with it.

1. The cossack event is way overpowered, it should be a one off hit of morale instead of a continuous drain. Right now it often leads to German surrender even if the Russians don't manage to capture anything and the Germans are winning in the west.

2. Conversely, Russia should have fewer and poorer quality troops, while Germany should have at least some Infantry corps in Prussia in order to be able to inflict a historical battle of Tannenberg, which atm they aren't able to do without bringing Infantry in from somewhere else.

3. France and Belgium have far too many troops at the start, Belgium should have a garrison in Liege and a garrison in Antwerp or Brussels at most, France should have enough troops to hold the Alsation front + 1 or so Infantry in reserve in Burgundy; as it is they immediately rush into Belgium with garrisons and slow down the advance enough to make reaching the historical boundaries of the Battle of the Marne impossible, let alone capturing Paris. As well they have so many troops that anything like the Race to the Sea never happens, and the Germans historically outnumbered the Entente 3:2 at the Battle of the Marne, whereas ingame the opposite happens and the Germans aren't defeated so much as spammed to a halt.

4. Rheims should be a hex north, Ypres a hex to the west.

5. Bulgaria never joins earlier then spring 1916, whereas in reality it was virtually certain it would join when it did, even thought there was a vicious diplomatic fight over it.

6. Gallipoli is overpowered. Ingame the ottomans have to ounumber the entente by around 30% in order to hold the front, whereas in reality they were able to hold it with only 70% of the entente forces. The entente never tries to take the Dardanelles, they only try to take Izmir. As well, they never retreat either, they just stay there as a constant nuisance, even when their entire fleet around Gallipoli gets destroyed.

7. Production seems bugged (it may be related to the reduced turns), AH becomes a deadweight by 1915, barely able to reinforce even if the Russians don't take Galicia, while in reality they didn't collapse until 1916 and then only after Galicia had been captured and the Brusilov offensive. Germany doesn't have nearly enough production to compete with the entente; the entente starts spamming aircraft in 1915 in a 5:1 ratio to the Germans, who don't have enough production to even produce new aircraft, let alone build up the submarine capacity they historically did. The bottom line being the CP almost never have any production to spare by 1915; which they did historically, even if less then the Entente did.

8. Reduced turns don't seem to work very well; in the west the problem is not as significant because of the more compressed nature of that front, but in the east there isn't enough time to advance as historically happened because of the reduced time. Reduced time also seems to be screwing up exhaustion levels, as it takes just as many turns as it would normally to recover but time is going by faster, which is exacerbated by winter coming faster now.

I'm not a bad player, so don't blame this on me, nor am I saying the CP should just be able to walk over everyone. But right now I think these really need to be fixed since the CP simply isn't as dangerous as it was in reality.

nehi
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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by nehi » Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:44 am

mhl67 wrote:I really like this mod, but there seem to be several problems with it.

I'm not a bad player, so don't blame this on me, nor am I saying the CP should just be able to walk over everyone. But right now I think these really need to be fixed since the CP simply isn't as dangerous as it was in reality.
your comment is all about mp?

mhl67
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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by mhl67 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:24 am

nehi wrote:
mhl67 wrote:I really like this mod, but there seem to be several problems with it.

I'm not a bad player, so don't blame this on me, nor am I saying the CP should just be able to walk over everyone. But right now I think these really need to be fixed since the CP simply isn't as dangerous as it was in reality.
your comment is all about mp?
Nope. Single player.

I edited the script somewhat, which seems to fix my concerns about the Schlieffen Plan and the Battle of Tannenberg. I changed the Parisian and Calais Garrisons to Small Garrisons, changed two of the English Garrisons to Small Garrisons, removed the Rheims small garrison, removed Belgian garrisons from Brussels and Ypres, removed the Belgian Armored Car, and changed two of the Prussian Garrisons to Infantry. The result seems to work very well, Germany can usually at least get to the Marne and possibly take Paris, though I haven't played it enough to confirm the latter. At the same time, the AI will rush troops enough so that Paris will not easily fall, and a Battle of the Marne effect will often occur where the Germans push forward so fast that a gap opens up somewhere in the line that the Entente can breakthrough. I think it's still too easy for an entente human player, but any more troops removed and the AI is simply too dumb to be a serious opponent.

It might be necessary to add a small garrison in Rheims, but considering they usually just transfer a small garrison from elsewhere, and considering I'm still not able to take it, I'm not sure how much difference it makes.

Anyway, I can upload my edited version of the mod if anyone wants to use it.

nehi
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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by nehi » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:06 am

then i have to disagree with u...

vs ai it works quite well

1. now cossacks event is not devastating cp anymore, just build as much as possible garrisons in first 2-3 german turns, i usually lost just few hexes, thats nothing to worry about, until france and serbia are down

2. at this point u r right, but not when ai works with russia, it needs to be overpowered, if it should take at least lemberg, i usually dont defend austria much, because once ai take border cities it turns to germany, which should be trenched at that time, so impenetrable for ai

with 2 infantries, i was able hold russia except tarnopol, so i denied overrun event, but i prefer to kick out serbia more than this "achievement", its better hold russia around przemysl, which is possible just with one infantry and garrisons (good idea is move german garrisons there, they have better defense which is ai scared of :lol: )

3. with current setting i was able to take paris in 9 and break all france in 15 turns, it needs all 3 starting arts there and to trigger that liege smash event, german units especially with commanders are really superior to anything ai throw in your way, kill weak, surround strong units, then kill em too 8)

4. nothing to say

5. bulgaria in my games usually joined short after serbia was down, in early 1915, sometimes with snow still everywhere
but i never saw italy in war, most likely they were scared without france and serbia

6. yop, ai is weak in such operations, but i guess it fits historically

7. i dont know aircrafts in 1916 or later, i dont acquire or feed any, because they are useless in first 30 turns, its better idea to produce more ammo to shoot with arts in like every turn, because its only support unit able to help to break trenches

u r talking about ah production when u r cp or ai? i havent problem, but ive noticed ai collapsed as u described, i just bombed their coastal cities and it went dry, unable to produce new units or refill old ones

8. in like 30 turns its possible to beat france, serbia and in russia to conquer whole poland

when i hunted down ais navy ive finished whole war in 22 turns as cp at best, but its quite unfair, dont know why, but in 1.6x navy ai is even more bad than was in 1.5x, there was able to sink my ships at least on its own green hexes
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mhl67
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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by mhl67 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:20 am

nehi wrote:then i have to disagree with u...
I'll try it with the Austrian Artillery, but I'm not sure how much of a difference that will make. At the very least keep in mind, Germans should be roughly in their positions by September 17, give or take a week. All I know is that with the edits I made, it produces a result that is at least close to the historical result. As for the Cossacks: while it's defeatable, it's incredibly annoying and pretty ahistorical. I really don't get why it's not just a one off loss.

As for Bulgaria, the problem is that Bulgaria joined before Serbia had fallen - it was in fact one of the key reasons that Serbia collapsed. So it makes little sense that they join after rather then before.

To be honest, I'm finding the combination of no unit stacking + a finite number of attacks per turn to be working at cross purposes since it makes attacking incredibly finicky - notably in making accurately simulating the 1914 invasion very difficult. Because that combination makes it so the entente doesn't really need to capably defend their lines, they can just cram so many troops in front that moving forward slows down, even if they are utterly routed. That's not really a problem with the mod so much as the game, but the only way I can think of fixing the situation is to reduce the number of troops in front of the Germans. Especially so when in reality the Germans didn't take Liege until their second ingame turn, when in the game there is no way they could do that and still make it to their historical positions.

nehi
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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by nehi » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:39 am

mhl67 wrote:but I'm not sure how much of a difference that will make
it has huge impact, im able to take liege and brussels in first german turn and move 2nd german (top one) artillery to position where it can shoot next turn on french or belgian garrison

Robotron
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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by Robotron » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:16 pm

@mhl67: out of curiousity: how many times have you played the mod?

mhl67
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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by mhl67 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:28 pm

Robotron wrote:@mhl67: out of curiousity: how many times have you played the mod?
Past 1916, maybe four times. Till 1915, probably more then a dozen and on both sides (I was trying to see if getting to where the Germans historically did at the historic time was possible; and like I said it's pretty much impossible for the CP and incredibly easy for an entente player to block.

As well, you might want to make Liege defended by an Infantry rather then a Garrison, so that it will be as difficult to capture as it was historically (as I've said previously, historically it took two ingame turns to capture it). This'd also give a purpose to the AH artillery at Liege event rather then simply freeing up a German artillery.

As I've said previously though, I haven't played with the AH Liege event, so I'll try that out without the mod's standard setup to see how well it works.

mhl67
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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by mhl67 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:03 pm

Ok, I played through 1914 using the AH artillery, It seems to work for a human player (Though I think the small garrison at Rheims should be removed since it's still too difficult to capture). Playing as the entente though, the CP is still too dumb to be able to play effectively. I'd suggest that for the AI, the AH artillery event trigger automatically regardless if the AH artillery is at Frankfurt, since that will at least give them a chance.

nehi
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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by nehi » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:37 pm

dont care about reims, go streight on paris

reims is just minor with 2 pps, which can be reduced with two attacks of infantry, then its like conquered

paris makes 21 pps plus event, which reduce morale greatly, reims can be taken lately on the way to verdun

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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by Robotron » Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:54 pm

mhl67 wrote:I'd suggest that for the AI, the AH artillery event trigger automatically regardless if the AH artillery is at Frankfurt, since that will at least give them a chance.
I like that, will be included in 2.2.4.

nehi
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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by nehi » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:04 pm

its possible to be commanders abilities visible in production queue? (when waiting for placement)

Robotron
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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by Robotron » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:37 pm

Yes, in therory at least I guess via tool-tips, but I have no clue about how to mod this in.

mhl67
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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by mhl67 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:59 pm

nehi wrote:dont care about reims, go streight on paris

reims is just minor with 2 pps, which can be reduced with two attacks of infantry, then its like conquered

paris makes 21 pps plus event, which reduce morale greatly, reims can be taken lately on the way to verdun
I'm not talking in strategic terms, just historical terms. Which is to say that Rheims should be able to be taken by the German Player. Part of the problem I think is that Rheims is a hex farther south then it was in reality.

I'm also noticing that the entente sends troops to Serbia far too early. I'd suggest making Albania neutral until Bulgaria enters the war. Although Albania's government had collapsed and it was for all purposes in a state of anarchy, there wasn't really any concerted occupation or fighting, much less using it to ferry Entente troops, until Serbia retreated through there when Bulgaria invaded. IIRC, Entente forces landed at Salonika anyway before the Serbian retreat.

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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by nehi » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:57 am

reims can be taken (3v1 + 3 arts, no ai position can resist that without +4D tech), but its waisting time until paris is not down

first neutralize its production, beat it later or do u want just to repeat all historical mistakes? 8)

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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by Zombo » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:07 am

Rheims should be a hex north, Ypres a hex to the west.

I can confirm (I live in Belgium)
I'm also noticing that the entente sends troops to Serbia far too early. I'd suggest making Albania neutral until Bulgaria enters the war. Although Albania's government had collapsed and it was for all purposes in a state of anarchy, there wasn't really any concerted occupation or fighting, much less using it to ferry Entente troops, until Serbia retreated through there when Bulgaria invaded. IIRC, Entente forces landed at Salonika anyway before the Serbian retreat.
That's also a concern (I'm taking multiplayer here). The Entente is able to send troops in Serbia pretty early, and once Italy joins it's very easy (because the Italian front is so narrow) to send a substantial proportion of the Italian army in Serbia, something that Italian exacerbated pride and nationalism would not have allowed.

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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by Robotron » Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:09 am

My reasoning for putting Ypres at 84/26 is that the tiny bit of river connected to the sea to the northwest is probably meant to be the Yser river while the river to the southeast running to Antwerp is probably the Scheldt river.

Image

Obviously the map is omitting the Lys river running south of Ypres. Putting Ypres at 83/25 would mean putting it north of the Yser which feels wrong in my opinion.

Image

About making Albania neutral until Bulgarian war entry: that means Serbia would lose whatever PPs are allotted to Tirana and Pristina, further exacerbating Serbia's problems to maintain/rebuild its army. If the PP were to be redistributed among the remaining Serbian cities these would become even more unrealistic production-wise compared to other nation's cities than now. I feel bad enough about allotting 7pp to Tirana already which puts it up on par with Florence or Danzig.

About the mod in general: still no success at implementing the choice feature for events. In fact I'm becoming more and more frustrated by fruitless attempts to adress stuff like the AIs endless railroad moves, weird prioritization of fronts (Italy!) and inability to properly use artillery. At the moment I'm trying to fix a bug where Russia suddenly stops producing units, happily sitting on 500+ pp doing nothing to stop me from a rather lucky breakthrough to Riga in 1914 and I've no clue why.

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Re: POTZBLITZ: a mod for CTGW UPDATE V2.2.3

Post by mhl67 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:06 am

I understand the reasoning for the placement of Ypres, but judging by the scale of the hexes I still think a placement to the west would be better. TBH, I don't really think Ypres (or rheims) needs to be a city anyway - it doesn't make much sense to me since they weren't really major cities.

I'm going to make another suggestion as well. You might want to make a neutral strip between the channel ports and the rest of Belgium/France which doesn't become active until after Moltke is sacked. Have you ever played the board game Paths of Glory? It has a similar mechanic, where the channel ports area cannot be entered by the CP until "Race to the Sea" is played. Which makes sense because the strategic importance of the area wasn't realized at the time.

As well, have you considered making Stormtrooper/Pioneer corps? I know that it already is kinda implemented via infantry upgrades, but Tanks and Railguns and armored cars have their own units and it's worth remembering that the German Stormtroopers had their own separate formations from regular infantry. If it were implemented I'd make them able to smash through entrenched infantry on, but very expensive to produce.

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