UPDATE! POTZBLITZ V10.3 MAY 23rd 2020

A forum to discuss custom scenarios, campaigns and modding in general.

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Zombo
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by Zombo » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:59 am

Thanks! looking froward to testing it!

nehi
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by nehi » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:55 pm

i just started mp game, nevertheless i draw diplomatic poker, entente played 3 events during first turn...

Robotron
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by Robotron » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:53 pm

Diplomatic Poker succeeds with a % chance of diplo points multiplied by 10.
Was changed from succeeding automatically quite some time ago.
Clipboard02.png
Clipboard02.png (149.08 KiB) Viewed 1227 times
Slitherine's Commander the Great War on steroids: POTZBLITZ mod!
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=218&t=77884&p=662610#p662610

nehi
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by nehi » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:11 pm

Robotron wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Diplomatic Poker succeeds with a % chance of diplo points multiplied by 10.
Was changed from succeeding automatically quite some time ago.

Clipboard02.png
ok, great, i left schlieffen for that "chance"

unfortunately oponnet left the game at 11th turn, no problem so far

Argentum
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by Argentum » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:00 pm

On 7.3 version still need chose great war scenario over POTZBLITZ for mp?

Robotron
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by Robotron » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:06 pm

Argentum wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:00 pm
On 7.3 version still need chose great war scenario over POTZBLITZ for mp?
To be honest: I just don't know for sure because after a turn is finished the data is getting processed by Slitherene's server.

It should cause NO problems since the Potzblitz and 1914 scenario contained in the mod are totally identical besides the title.
So I'd say choose Potzblitz.

BTW: I saw a Potzblitz open challenge a few days ago that is now gone. Wonder what happened to that match?
Slitherine's Commander the Great War on steroids: POTZBLITZ mod!
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=218&t=77884&p=662610#p662610

nehi
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by nehi » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:00 pm

Robotron wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:06 pm
Argentum wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:00 pm
On 7.3 version still need chose great war scenario over POTZBLITZ for mp?
To be honest: I just don't know for sure because after a turn is finished the data is getting processed by Slitherene's server.

It should cause NO problems since the Potzblitz and 1914 scenario contained in the mod are totally identical besides the title.
So I'd say choose Potzblitz.

BTW: I saw a Potzblitz open challenge a few days ago that is now gone. Wonder what happened to that match?
btw i guess we need my ancient idea, to eliminate "reload" abuse

i dont know whats probability of russian surprise attack and serbian surrender, but i guess its going to happen very often without it in mp
(it really "happened" to me, both in opening turns vs same player)

Argentum
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by Argentum » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:07 pm

I have a problem in my game with nehi...
When i trying load game it crash.

Log date: 2019-01-18 21:05:55
[21:05:56][9816]Running Steam build
[21:05:59][9816]Renderer: ANGLE (Intel(R) HD Graphics 530 Direct3D9Ex vs_3_0 ps_3_0) version: OpenGL ES 2.0 (ANGLE 2.1.d7e7d735ec75)
[21:05:59][9816]Commander: The Great War(v 1.6.6)
[21:06:00][9816]Audio device used: OpenAL Soft
[21:06:00][9816]Loading main script
[21:06:00][9816]Loading app script
[21:06:00][9816]App version:1.6.6
[21:06:00][9816]Today is: 18.1.2019
[21:06:00][9816]ALUCK 81
[21:06:00][9816]BLUCK 91
[21:06:00][9816]CLUCK 61
[21:06:20][16252]Starting PBEM game. Id: 424084 Argentum vs nehi
[21:06:22][16252]Game instance downloaded, moving on
[21:06:27][9816][C]:-1(global GetTextHeight) std::exception: 'Invalid UTF-8'

nehi
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by nehi » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:01 pm

"unlucky" chain of events continues, serbia surrendered in first, belgians yields in second turn

Argentum
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by Argentum » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:19 pm

Yes, so unlucky... But I agreed with nehi Ultimatum to Serbia and to Belgium its cancer in MP. Robo, maybe you will remove these events from the MP version? Also I think 4 events to choose will be better because too much randomn now.

And nehi I will never believe that belgians yields in you first turn was just an accident. A strong player would not spend valuable diplomatic points at the very beginning of the game for events that do not benefit. I just showed that I can do this too.
Robotron, can we count on a small fix or the game is stuck?

nehi
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by nehi » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:26 pm

Argentum wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:19 pm
Yes, so unlucky... But I agreed with nehi Ultimatum to Serbia and to Belgium its cancer in MP. Robo, maybe you will remove these events from the MP version? Also I think 4 events to choose will be better because too much randomn now.

And nehi I will never believe that belgians yields in you first turn was just an accident. A strong player would not spend valuable diplomatic points at the very beginning of the game for events that do not benefit. I just showed that I can do this too.
Robotron, can we count on a small fix or the game is stuck?
dont tell me what u dont believe, i know your reloading skills from the past, luckily in vanilla it wasnt changing much

i knew its going to be crazy games before i joined them, no real surprise so far

at least its good way to test imbalances, as austrians lost half of their army in first turn, its quite game changing

to events case, their lineup should be set up from previous turn (or turns) / based on number draw in the past, so reload wont change it

Robotron
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by Robotron » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:40 pm

Code: Select all

[9816][C]:-1(global GetTextHeight) std::exception: 'Invalid UTF-8'
seems to be an error which is pointing to some trouble using special characters, I'm guessing German Umlauts (ä, ü, ö).
Funnily this has never occured before since ages when I was testing singleplayer.

Chance for Serbia to surrender to Austria ultimatum is CP diplo multiplied by 5.
Chance for Belgium to surrender to German ultimatum is CP diplo multiplied by 5 (by 10 if "Schlieffen" was chosen and/or reduced by half if "British Guarantee" was chosen).

How many matches with that outcome were even tried? More than one?

I can't implement safeguards against reloading for cheating purposes since the load game routine is part of the main executable of the game.
Slitherene team once told you that "measures would be taken" against multiple reloading in MP...but don't kid yourselves: this is not the case since this game does not have any kind of "ladder" system.

I will remove those ultimatums from MP if that is desired because certain players can't be arsed to play honest and not reload their games. Cheaters!

*edit*
I think I found a measure to prevent the Serbian/Belgium ultimatums to be non-random once the game has begun, so they should be safe from reloading.
Thing is: there are so many MORE random dice rolls in PotzBlitz that randomness is an integral part of the mod and you could reload upon any occasion in the game.
Reloading breaks the mod for sure and no, there is no way to prevent that: either be honest or welcome to reload-hell (which you could already do in the basic game to undo your moves).
to events case, their lineup should be set up from previous turn (or turns) / based on number draw in the past, so reload wont change it
You are suggesting a linear/deterministic lineup then? No way.
Slitherine's Commander the Great War on steroids: POTZBLITZ mod!
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=218&t=77884&p=662610#p662610

nehi
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by nehi » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:36 pm

Robotron wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:40 pm
You are suggesting a linear/deterministic lineup then? No way.
not really, but pool of numbers determined, at least one turn in front

so reload wont change that pool for current turn

vanilla is using something like that for combat outcomes

Robotron
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by Robotron » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:23 pm

Nehi, we've been through this already, why are you still trying to disagree?

Vanilla is not using randomising at all.

Potzblitz is using randomising literally everywhere.

There is no way to implement pseudo-randomising anywhere from maybe the fist few turns without totally rewriting all of the mod to go into a linear/deterministic way which is something I just won't do.

"pool of numbers determined, at least one turn in front" how the hell is this going to be implemented?
How should I know how many random numbers would be needed in a future turn to process all the functions?
I can't see into the future!

Sorry nehi, please consult some LUA forums beforehand and tell me how exactly to implement this feature?
I'm very curious about this, since it is nowhere near as easy as it might sound to you.

If you don't like randomising then don't reload or don't play MP at all.

This goes for all players who feel to reload the game after a certain dice roll has failed them.

What do you guys expect me to do?
Invent a cheatproof-workaround out of the blue for a game that is no longer supported and that is only played by a bunch of cheaters?
For free because this is a mod?

Sorry, but you got to be f*cking kidding me!
Slitherine's Commander the Great War on steroids: POTZBLITZ mod!
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=218&t=77884&p=662610#p662610

nehi
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by nehi » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:45 pm

Robotron wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:23 pm
"pool of numbers determined, at least one turn in front" how the hell is this going to be implemented?
How should I know how many random numbers would be needed in a future turn to process all the functions?
I can't see into the future!
its hard to make sugestions, if i dont know how its all working in background, but i will try to explain my idea

u dont need to know how many times it will be needed, u can draw 100 numbers and pick em one by one each time its needed, if someone will have diplo points to pick up 101 events, 101st event will be connected to 1st number (cycle), 102nd for 2nd etc

it would be enough to implement this just for first few turns, later events are not such important

with rest of your post i mostly agree or i can imagine your feelings

if its really complicated to implement my "idea", then please remove extreme scenarios from mp, some players cant help themselfs not to play them first/each time they can

russian surprise attack is the most extreme, i lost half austrian army in its first turn (i knew it will happen, so i refilled units to full health, but they were still anihilated)

belgium yields is extreme too, as britain is out of war, its quite tough to defend france with british help, even more tough without

maybe these two are connected anyway, i havent tried all combinations vs ai

Zombo
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by Zombo » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:37 am

u dont need to know how many times it will be needed, u can draw 100 numbers and pick em one by one each time its needed, if someone will have diplo points to pick up 101 events, 101st event will be connected to 1st number (cycle), 102nd for 2nd etc
if I understand the discussion, Nehi is concerned about players cheating/reloading? (Damn, are there really players cheating in this minuscule audience of Potzblitz players? What's the point? Jeezes!)

But, Nehi, wouldn't getting numbers in advance ( assuming it's possible) completely lose its purpose if the cheater doesn't do his actions in the same order?

nehi
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by nehi » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:50 pm

Zombo wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:37 am
u dont need to know how many times it will be needed, u can draw 100 numbers and pick em one by one each time its needed, if someone will have diplo points to pick up 101 events, 101st event will be connected to 1st number (cycle), 102nd for 2nd etc
if I understand the discussion, Nehi is concerned about players cheating/reloading? (Damn, are there really players cheating in this minuscule audience of Potzblitz players? What's the point? Jeezes!)

But, Nehi, wouldn't getting numbers in advance ( assuming it's possible) completely lose its purpose if the cheater doesn't do his actions in the same order?
its useless to know numbers, if u dont know algorithm they are used

on top of that, cheater has to know where to find them and how to change them to break it, to know these numbers should be useless anyway

maybe its possible, but without robotrons help very unlikely

that all is much more complicated than just reload the game, thats what can do anyone

Robotron
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by Robotron » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:21 pm

Sorry if I've sounded agitated in my last post but the thought about people reloading even in MP just blew my lid.

Okay, I think I've got some explaining to do about the Serbian and Belgiam ultimata and the Russian Surprise Attack then:

This is how it works now:

1. Should Serbia surrender to the AH ultimatum the CP player will have Russia on his neck from turn 1 which is a strong deterrent in my opinion.

2. Should Belgium surrender to the German ultimatum then the Russian Surprise Attack is added to the Entente event pool. This may allow for playing the Russian Surprise Attack in turn 3 or 4.

3. Even if Belgium does not surrender then there's a 33% chance in turns 3 and 4 that Russian Surprise Attack is added to the event pool.

4. AH can always totally remove the Russian Surprise Attack by playing "Austrian defense plans". Exception: if Serbia surrenders to the ultimatum.

5. Germany can totally remove the Russian Surprise Attack by playing war plan "German Army redeploys" in turn 2 instead of Schlieffen

6. Playing Russian Surprise Attack does not add "Swedish navy attacked" to CP event pool.

This is how I'll change that:

1. no changes, if CP is afraid of Russian Surprise then don't play Ultimatum to Serbia.

2. no changes, if CP is afraid of Russian Surprise then don't play Ultimatum to Belgium.

3. Russian Surprise will only be added if Schlieffen plan was played by Germany and Entente has more INTEL on Germany then CP.

4. no changes

5. no changes

6. Playing Russian Surprise Attack WILL add "Swedish navy attacked" to CP event pool. If played this will have Sweden join CP.

Does this sound acceptable?
Slitherine's Commander the Great War on steroids: POTZBLITZ mod!
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=218&t=77884&p=662610#p662610

nehi
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by nehi » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:34 pm

Robotron wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:21 pm
Sorry if I've sounded agitated in my last post but the thought about people reloading even in MP just blew my lid.

Okay, I think I've got some explaining to do about the Serbian and Belgiam ultimata and the Russian Surprise Attack then:

This is how it works now:

1. Should Serbia surrender to the AH ultimatum the CP player will have Russia on his neck from turn 1 which is a strong deterrent in my opinion.

2. Should Belgium surrender to the German ultimatum then the Russian Surprise Attack is added to the Entente event pool. This may allow for playing the Russian Surprise Attack in turn 3 or 4.

3. Even if Belgium does not surrender then there's a 33% chance in turns 3 and 4 that Russian Surprise Attack is added to the event pool.

4. AH can always totally remove the Russian Surprise Attack by playing "Austrian defense plans". Exception: if Serbia surrenders to the ultimatum.

5. Germany can totally remove the Russian Surprise Attack by playing war plan "German Army redeploys" in turn 2 instead of Schlieffen

6. Playing Russian Surprise Attack does not add "Swedish navy attacked" to CP event pool.

This is how I'll change that:

1. no changes, if CP is afraid of Russian Surprise then don't play Ultimatum to Serbia.

2. no changes, if CP is afraid of Russian Surprise then don't play Ultimatum to Belgium.

3. Russian Surprise will only be added if Schlieffen plan was played by Germany and Entente has more INTEL on Germany then CP.

4. no changes

5. no changes

6. Playing Russian Surprise Attack WILL add "Swedish navy attacked" to CP event pool. If played this will have Sweden join CP.

Does this sound acceptable?
most sounds fine, im just not convinced that russian surprise attack compensate british neutrality, its still great advantage for cp, especially when someone combines it with serbian surrender, then there is like no disadvantage (thats what im facing now)

ost marsch is likewise, 10+ turns is like forever for such weaker side, russia will be (almost) down until britain joins it
(i havent played it in mp, but i guess its the bulletproof plan for cp, take out russia first, with ottomans in their back -will britain join it when ottomans do?-, russia will be alone and harmless)

btw. one more suggestion, its possible to ask both sides in first turn, if they want to play all scenarios, through some event? if one will pick no, then sort out were britain is not in?

Robotron
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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.3, JAN 12th

Post by Robotron » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:41 pm

@nehi: you are saying the Russian Surprise Attack is no compensation for late British war entry yet you complain about losing half AHs army to the Russian Surprise, which as you put it is "game changing".

What will it be, make up your mind.
Slitherine's Commander the Great War on steroids: POTZBLITZ mod!
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=218&t=77884&p=662610#p662610

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