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Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:55 pm
by nehi
Robotron wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:41 pm
@nehi: I'm confused. From which game is that? You playing as Entente?
vs argentum, turn 42

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:02 pm
by Robotron
nehi wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:55 pm
Robotron wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:41 pm
@nehi: I'm confused. From which game is that? You playing as Entente?
vs argentum, turn 42
1. Was France your last country?
2. Was there no victory/defeat message?

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:06 pm
by nehi
Robotron wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:02 pm

1. Was France your last country?
2. Was there no victory/defeat message?
1. yes, was
2. no, wasnt, replay, crash and that line in log (i had to use the red button to leave/surrender, in that game it wasnt a real problem, but if it can happen under different conditions...)

[17:56:13][4060]ui/diplomacy_panel.lua:376(method Refresh) ui/diplomacy_panel.lua:376: attempt to index field 'diplomacyFaction' (a nil value)

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:23 pm
by Robotron
nehi wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:06 pm
Robotron wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:02 pm

1. Was France your last country?
2. Was there no victory/defeat message?
1. yes, was
2. no, wasnt, replay, crash and that line in log (i had to use the red button to leave/surrender, in that game it wasnt a real problem, but if it can happen under different conditions...)

[17:56:13][4060]ui/diplomacy_panel.lua:376(method Refresh) ui/diplomacy_panel.lua:376: attempt to index field 'diplomacyFaction' (a nil value)
Must have something to do with the new sudden death routine because the MP match between me and Argentum ended without a crash.
Will have to look into that.

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:33 pm
by nehi
Robotron wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:23 pm
Must have something to do with the new sudden death routine because the MP match between me and Argentum ended without a crash.
Will have to look into that.
but france hasnt lost paris and had just 7 collapse points, that screenshot is after action in replay i saw last time - ending in crash

he seized more free hexes in that turn than all together hexes in 41 turns before

except belfour it was taken during that last turn too, cant be its event causing problem as france most likely surrendered?

(email is talking about 42th turn and was talking 41th about previous turn, so its some numbering mismatch, it seems emails start numbering at 2 insted of 1)

only sudden death could happen to britain, but it was allready out

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:29 pm
by Argentum
nehi wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:04 pm
btw. france havent surrendered at zero morale, i could see replay then it crashed

[17:56:13][4060]ui/diplomacy_panel.lua:376(method Refresh) ui/diplomacy_panel.lua:376: attempt to index field 'diplomacyFaction' (a nil value)

fortunatelly the red button works

argentum, u cant use it to cancel that stucked game?
No. The game crashes at loading. I don't even see replay.
By the way, on my last turn, I accepted France surrendering, but France did not give up. The same was with Britain. I accepted British surrendering, but the next turn, Britain was still in the war and I had to accept their surrender a second time.

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:15 pm
by nehi
Argentum wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:29 pm
By the way, on my last turn, I accepted France surrendering, but France did not give up. The same was with Britain. I accepted British surrendering, but the next turn, Britain was still in the war and I had to accept their surrender a second time.
then it could be british sudden death, as they surrendered at 10% morale level, on top of that u said they offered surrender in previous turn allready, they had like 40% at that time, but 10 collapse points

france was at zero, if offered surrender just once

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:21 pm
by Robotron
The game tries to show the resource panel (PP, morale etc.) for one of the remaining nations of the current alliance.

Strangely enough no nation is left (a nil value) and yet the game has passed the victory determination check which should have ended the game.

It's tragic that nehi has used the "emergency button" to quit and cancel the game, else I could have tried to insert some emergency fixes because we got a standard crash here with an error message and no unfixable replay crash bug.

Hmmm...maybe I'll have a sudden enlightenment about how to solve the issue but for now I'm puzzled. :P

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:54 pm
by nehi
Robotron wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:21 pm
The game tries to show the resource panel (PP, morale etc.) for one of the remaining nations of the current alliance.

Strangely enough no nation is left (a nil value) and yet the game has passed the victory determination check which should have ended the game.
if no faction in either alliance, force end, solved :lol:

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:16 pm
by Robotron
That's exactly what the victory determination check does, wise guy.

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:31 pm
by nehi
Robotron wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:16 pm
That's exactly what the victory determination check does, wise guy.
the wise guy was asking if its problem to delay actions by one turn, if actions effect wont be visible immediately, most of re-rolling would be useless

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:59 pm
by Robotron
I've told you multiple times before that I won't add 1000+ more checks for stuff just because you can't control your cheating reloading habits.
And even if I did you would
reload
and reload
and reload
(*more reloading*)
and then pick the one move/choice that you found to be the optimal option.

"Let's try THIS, uh-oh, that one seems to be hard-set to fail in this game." *reloads*
"Okay, THAT did not work either, so I will try THIS then" *reloads*
"Okay, THAT seemed to work fine if I did not choose THAT other thing, now let's choose THAT one " *reloads*
"Damn, nothing seems to work...hard set values from the start of the game have ruined my match....let's complain on the forum!"

;)

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:59 am
by nehi
Robotron wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:59 pm
I've told you multiple times before that I won't add 1000+ more checks for stuff just because you can't control your cheating reloading habits.
u r sometimes complaining, that others dont read your posts

but u r not always carefull reader too

one turn dice rolls decide what will or wont happen, next turn it will happen, no way back, no complaints

no checking whats working or whats not, because player dont see immediate effect, there is nothing to check, when it comes its done

player picks diplomatic poker, no message about if it was successful or not, next turn it will happen (or not happen)

i dont know ho many checks it needs, but its not needed for all actions, just which are not 100% and have huge impact
events like diplo poker, ultimates... outcome of intel actions

intel actions have 5 outcomes?
maybe im too optimistic, but i imagine it could work as in one turn it set true/false, at start of the next turn 5x if (for each possible outcome) checkes if intel action should happen or not, what should happen u have allready written elsewhere

of course, if applied to all actions in the game, it could be monstrous

uve told me many things, but if u nerf intel actions too much, no body wont use them, if u nerf them not enough, someones will re-roll them, true/false check can solve it once and for all (same as reloading if ultimatum works or not)

solving italian case looks interesting, but its maybe as complicated as adding all checks if nations should or shouldnt shift

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:18 am
by Zombo
Damn, how much energy is spent on this cheating thing... :shock:

I don't cheat, I don't play with people that cheat. How about that for a solution

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:20 am
by nehi
Zombo wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:18 am
Damn, how much energy is spent on this cheating thing... :shock:

I don't cheat, I don't play with people that cheat. How about that for a solution
i know only about next 2 active players just now, its not enough to half of them could be ignored, especially if another one left both games before it really starts and the game is not tested in mp and balanced

(but ive noticed something even during that short game, vs argentum i took przemysl, budapest and some more austrian minors, but it did like nothing to them, in this game holding just three of them tarnopol-czernovitz-lemberg were triggering bad events for austrians, dissmising etc., if its connected to hotzendorf attacks, one more reason to find antirerolling way - but this time warplan was ost-marsch, if its not such different)

my latest idea is saving a lot of energy, its easier than reset/nerf all events etc.

btw. can be two accounts connected to one gaming licence? once ive read something like that, but ive had no use for it until now, it would be easier to test the game than relly on random opponents

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:46 pm
by Vokt
Reloading cheating became a major issue in CEAW community either. People started to think that most players actually cheated.

The fact is that wargames reloading cheaters may be just a minority and most players do not cheat. Anyway, there's one thing that surely is missed by all wargamers and that's to find really challenging AI's. As of today, I don't know any wargame with an AI as capable as the AI of any decent chess computer.

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:34 am
by nehi
Vokt wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:46 pm
Reloading cheating became a major issue in CEAW community either. People started to think that most players actually cheated.

The fact is that wargames reloading cheaters may be just a minority and most players do not cheat. Anyway, there's one thing that surely is missed by all wargamers and that's to find really challenging AI's. As of today, I don't know any wargame with an AI as capable as the AI of any decent chess computer.
chess have limited ways, nowadays computing power is able to use optimalized recursion to cover almost any available scenario (tens turns ahead)

on top of that, i guess even "ai" for go is now able to beat any human too, go>chess in matter of complexity

its completely different than computer games with much more posibilities, u cant use recursion where is like unlimited number of ways, else u will wait for end of ai turns forever

there is some advanced ai for star craft 2, but its developed by some google team called deepmind i guess, developers of such games as ctgw dont have sources for anything like that, to make ai just for one game, so its sum of some scripts, which just have to fail sooner or later, scripts cant cover all situations

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:50 pm
by Robotron
A few days ago I stumbled upon the results thread of the recent PanzerKorps multiplayer world tournament where the tournament-organizers forgot to remove a singleplayer AI event trigger on the map used for the semi-finals that granted one player 1500 bonus PP (about 2 Tiger Tank battalions) during the match.

Much gnashing of teeth followed.
Found that absolutely hilarious. :mrgreen:

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:52 pm
by Robotron
V8 updates:

- totally brought the PDF manual up to the latest rules with better readability too.
- completely rewrote fighter & bomber unit strengths and technologies
- fighters are now 25PP/3upkeep while artys are 20PP/1upkeep: fighters are reduced in power and arty is upgraded, also bonus ammo-events now give MUCH more ammo. If you find the PP/Upkeep values unrealistic consider how much artillery and how few fighter airplanes were around in WW1.
- AA defenses went WAY up (back to vanilla level values which were, curiously, changed during PotzBlitz design, don't ask why)
- threw away the "swaying Italy" mechanism and converted all per-turn alignment changes back to good old-fashioned one-time alignment changes because else in SP test games Italy would always join in 1914 no matter what side was played. Also keeps MP cheaters from reloading.
- made standard resource-boosting events give hard-set values to discourage reloading
- made more early event chances hard-set
- introduced lots more undercover low-chance random checks for events to drive reloaders insane trying to find a pattern to exploit
- added unit symbols for neutral Arabs who were still missing and could cause crashes

Re: POTZBLITZ V7.4, JAN 20th (reload hardened)

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:42 pm
by berto
How soon do you anticipate releasing V8? I am ready to start a new game.