Artillery versus anti-tank guns

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enric
Brigadier-General - 8.8 cm Pak 43/41
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Re: Artillery versus anti-tank guns

Post by enric » Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:13 pm

dickesKind wrote:Hello Joe,

thank you for your answer.
I see that this poblem is not easy too fix. But I hope you still look for a way to do it.
The current AT-gun-situation is horrible :(
I can't remember if it was the same in BA1?

Greetings...
Yes, it was the same.
JoeMiller said… increasing the crew/hits it can take may help, but I know Iain has said elsewhere that adding extra crewmen wouldn't help due to the mechanic used.
The problem increasing the crew is that BA shows as many ATs icons (or any type) as men are in the crew, so one way will be adding a new attribute "crew" and left the number of men to 1. For example a mortar is showed as two men with a mortar each one.

When a unit is fired there is a random to kill each man in the unit, when a member is killed the probabilities for killing the second man is halved and so on. When hitting an infantry you have x% of probabilities to kill the first man, and if killed, x/2 % to kill the second one, if killed also the second man, the possibilities goes to x/4 for the third, and so on, so it's very improbable that you kill a whole infantry BUT you have the same possibilities to kill the whole AT/GUN that you got on killing the first man. So, now, the same hit may leave your LMG with only one man, but alive, but kills the whole 88 AT.

If guns had several men crew, for example, a hit could have killed a man of the new attribute "crew", and the gun will continue alive and firing (at less accuracy, or only one shot per turn, as one man less in crew, etc.).
This involves modifying several scripts, when a unit with "crew" gets a kill, this will reduce "crew" NO its attribute "ManCount".
Also "Revive" bonus, or any other action that affects "ManCount", must work different when type unit has "crew".

falco148
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Re: Artillery versus anti-tank guns

Post by falco148 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:09 pm

Just to add my 2 cents worth, I have noticed in BA2 it appears to be way too easy to knock out AT-guns (at least in bunkers) compared to BA1, with artillery. Does seem to be quite an anomaly Slitherine.

JosephM
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Re: Artillery versus anti-tank guns

Post by JosephM » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:28 am

Hello guys,

I'm bringing this up with one of the main designers today, as there is a map early in the Kursk campaign where Wespes can be used as an exploit. I was speaking with Galangalad yesterday and he was saying that AT guns are quite resistant to Infantry and Tanks, so having a weakness to artillery is a good way of allowing them to be taken out easily. We are aware of the issue and I'll be chatting about this with the guys today and getting Iain's input as well when he is back in on Monday.

dickesKind
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Re: Artillery versus anti-tank guns

Post by dickesKind » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:54 pm

Sounds great, thank you!

JosephM
Slitherine
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Re: Artillery versus anti-tank guns

Post by JosephM » Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:49 pm

Hello All,

Just to let you know I've spoken to Iain today and he has confirmed we will be revisiting the AT guns vs Artillery with a view to make them more durable vs artillery fire.

enric
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Re: Artillery versus anti-tank guns

Post by enric » Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:03 pm

JoeMiller wrote:Hello All,

Just to let you know I've spoken to Iain today and he has confirmed we will be revisiting the AT guns vs Artillery with a view to make them more durable vs artillery fire.
Only agains artillery? or any HE?, with a tank you need no more than 3 shots (usually)

JosephM
Slitherine
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Re: Artillery versus anti-tank guns

Post by JosephM » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:31 pm

Hello Enric,

Unfortunately I'm not sure specifically how they are planning of editing it, but it will likely affect the HE rounds as well. The problem is that AT guns are intended to not easily be killed by tanks and they are meant to be resistant against infantry, otherwise they'd die too easily to be worth the points, so trying to balance them is not easy, as Iain has said before.

best75
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Re: Artillery versus anti-tank guns

Post by best75 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:24 pm

I view making at guns more durable against artillery a much welcome chance.
Playing the bagration campaign AT guns are taken out by a single bombardment from mortars

JosephM
Slitherine
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Re: Artillery versus anti-tank guns

Post by JosephM » Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:18 pm

Yes, certainly there will be increased durability against artillery, as currently it seems that any mortar/artillery strike will always one-hit kill any AT gun. I've not had a chance to try the latest internal builds, but Iain has said that their durability has been increased, so when the next patch is released please do try and see if you think that the changes work well.

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