Cost of "tiger teams"

Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager (SPM) Road to the Moon is the ultimate game of space exploration.

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Italianfan88
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Cost of "tiger teams"

Post by Italianfan88 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:16 pm

Hi, just dropping by to give some feedback on the "tiger team" system.
While it's certainly an improvement from before, where the only thing you could do when a problem appeared was pray, I do feel that the cost to hire them is a little high... I mean, it's a gamble to use them, because even if you go for the most expensive solution you stay below the 80% threshold, and therefore it's not a certain investment. Moreover, you can use one and get a go, and then on the next mission step have another... it can spiral upwards very quickly.
Do somebody else feel the same way?

BARIS70
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Re: Cost of "tiger teams"

Post by BARIS70 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:09 pm

I feel the same way. They are kind of useless.

The cost of using them doesn't beat the cost of waiting another season and going in with better specs. I do like the concept, but something is missing.

Thoughts on improvement. One cost for the team, but with three random levels of improvement. 2 positive, and one slightly negative. I suggest a negative possibility since hiring a team should have some risk, and sometimes too many people can be a real problem.

I also suggest teams get better with use. If you are hiring an outside agency, you should get point for building up some familiarity.

- 5%, +5%, +10% in effectiveness.
Starting point is the average of MC +.05 each time they are used.

Cost for a team is 40% of mission cost and only charged once per mission.
I'm throwing numbers out here for illustration.

I like the idea that the team is there for an entire mission. There should be an upfront cost. I don't like the idea that they are there for only one mission point.

As I think about the dynamics. Maybe a new team can only help at one mission point and an advanced team could help at the three weakest.

I'm not a fan of the abort button, but I do like the idea of a downgrade button. If we go for duration 3, we should be able to cut it back to duration 2 if it gets a bit harry.

These are just some thoughts. What do you think?

N_Molson
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Re: Cost of "tiger teams"

Post by N_Molson » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:43 pm

I think for myself that too cheap "Tiger Teams" would simply make the game too easy. They have a real impact on the game, especially when your Mission Controllers aren't super-trained. Also, it really depends of the mission type.

My personal guideline is not to use them for unmanned probes, as the consequences of a failure are usually limited. That's completely different for a mission that involves a "R&D costly" crewed spacecraft like Apollo, LOK or Soyuz.

Some uncrewed test missions are really important, and I might use a team there when needed (like Apollo uncrewed Suborbital test, which is a key to the Moon if you choose that path).

And there are of course the big prestigious manned missions like a manned lunar orbital flight, that involve my elite astronauts. Training them takes (quite realistically) years and a lot of money, and there failure is not an option.

And also when the consequences in terms of prestige are quite a disaster, and I need to reach a "prestige ceiling" before the quadriennal review.

I've played quite a lot in "Hard" mode, and there I find them really useful. Its much easier to recover from a failure in "Normal" mode, so of course the consequences of a failure aren't really the same.

Note that its already planned to halve the costs of such "Tiger Teams" in the particular case of 2-launches missions, which should make those EOR/docking missions a bit less insane ! :wink:
Nicolas Escats
Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager Contributor

Italianfan88
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Re: Cost of "tiger teams"

Post by Italianfan88 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:53 am

I was looking at something in between "too costly" and "too cheap"... I acknowledge that they have an impact on the game, because it gives you extra reason to look up the budget, but as of now I think it's somewhat unbalanced...

BARIS70
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Re: Cost of "tiger teams"

Post by BARIS70 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:00 pm

It's funny that you say don't use them for unmanned probes. That's where I like them the best. They aren't as expensive on a probe and are great to test a Saturn V rocket. I also like the the Explorer probe has less mission points.

The one thing I don't like is the concept that you would be calling in an ad hoc team in a moment which really happens in seconds. I'd rather the concept of hiring an extra team from the beginning of the mission.

On Normal, I didn't see the point. On hard I used them for the Rocket test. Maybe on Buzz Hard I'll love them. :)
I've landed on the moon in 1963 on Normal and 1965 on Hard.

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