Air/Navy Battles

Order of Battle is a series of operational WW2 games starting with the Pacific War and then on to Europe!

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Epperaliant
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Air/Navy Battles

Post by Epperaliant » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:50 pm

So, finally I am over Bataan and now I have to face my first real naval/air only battle.

I actually have no idea on how to deal with this, the Tutorial gave almost pre-made fleets and it was easy to win even on V difficulty.
Now, I got about 900 req in this scenario (Diff. III) and I think I need to build a Air/Navy force almost from zero.

My questions right now are:

1) I pretty much know know the roles of each ship and aircraft, but I was wondering how much should I spend? Should I MAX up the Naval/Air command points and drain entire reserve?
I was wondering especially on aircrafts, considering that up to now I completely ignored them given the hight cost and the unavoidable casualties. However, I suppose that "historically" planes should be the key to win these naval engagements.

2) Up to this mission, I always got all the objectives: now this mission has quite lot of objectives and I think it needs at least 2 separate fleets to even get slight chance of success.
Is this still feasible or should start focusing on SOME secondary objectives?

3) Battleships: should I get at least one or are just a waste of req?

jakemon
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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by jakemon » Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:11 pm

One of the fun aspects of the US Pacific campaign is scenarios alternating between ground and sea operations. Avoiding spoilers, it’s time to build up your fleet and air resources.

I never buy Battleships. They’re expensive and slow for their bang. Get all the 3 bay Carriers you can provision. Get a 2 bay carrier if that’s all you can afford, or can use to max out your air CP.

The default air complement is a fighter, dive bomber, and torpedo bomber per carrier. I choose or upgrade to the tactical bombers that will dive or launch torpedoes when possible. With enough of those tacticals, I’ll sometimes use 2 fighters and 1 tactical on a carrier to help maintain air superiority.

When RP poor (you’re not), don’t be afraid to wait through the first few turns to accrue enough RPs to make that last aircraft purchase.

The “Marshall Gilbert Raid” is a raid, so you will focus on destroying ground infrastructure and air assets, avoiding a major surface encounter, and protecting your own. All secondary objectives are possible.

Epperaliant
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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by Epperaliant » Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:55 pm

Thanks, useful info.

I have almost finished and on III difficulty looks quite easy, I was expecting a fleet clash but all the enemy ships are transports and motorboats.
I cannot seem to strike the right balance with difficulty in this game, I hope it looks so easy just because it's the early scenarios of the 1st campaign.

Anyway bought a Carrier, 3 Cruisers, 4 Destroyers and a bunch of planes.

Epperaliant
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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by Epperaliant » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:17 pm

How many core carriers should I have? Is one enough?
I already see that even with another non-core carrier I can't field the whole aircraft cap, so maybe I need two.

Epperaliant
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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by Epperaliant » Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:04 pm

I was experimenting with the smallest carrier (Avenger I think) but it really gives too few air supply.
At this point I think that 2 core Yorktowns are the best choice, what do you think?

Also, I noticed that submarines and battleships are essentially memes.
Subs' torpedoes are sooo weak, nothing compared to the bombers' ones.
Battleships...why are their guns so weak?

GabeKnight
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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by GabeKnight » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:29 pm

Epperaliant wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:04 pm
I was experimenting with the smallest carrier (Avenger I think) but it really gives too few air supply.
At this point I think that 2 core Yorktowns are the best choice, what do you think?
Yeah, you'll need at least two of the large carriers IMO.
But I also had one of the smaller ones in my core, it's just 2 or 3 CP, I think, and it was useful in some of the later scens to have a "mobile airfield" for your planes. At "NewGeorgia", for example.

Personally I prefer them early "Lexington" carriers. They have an impressive firing range compared to all other carriers. They can be actually used to deal damage to enemy ships. All other carriers have some 3-hex-ranged weapons. And you definitely do not want them to be THAT close to enemy vessels... :D
Epperaliant wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:04 pm
Also, I noticed that submarines and battleships are essentially memes.
Subs' torpedoes are sooo weak, nothing compared to the bombers' ones.
Battleships...why are their guns so weak?
You're right about subs, they are merely weak harassment units in OoB. Best used as recon and to land a lucky shot on some capital ship "behind enemy lines", if possible.

But battleships? Really? They have exemplary AA, are extremely durable and once you see them wipe out about 7HP off an enemy cruiser in one attack, you might reconsider... :wink: :lol:
There're always two BB in my core fleet (once I can afford them).

One of the great aspects of this game is, that you do not have to depend on some "fixed" core composition to be successful. You can beat most scens with a very varied core force. I'm pretty sure you could win everything even with a destroyer or cruiser-only navy.

Epperaliant
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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by Epperaliant » Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:38 am

Then I think I need to experiment more with battleships, I just toyed with a non core one in the early missions and had really not a chance to use it because it couldn't keep up with the fleet and only managed to fire few long range barrages.

CoolDTA
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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by CoolDTA » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:26 pm

Could it be possible you were not using the Primary Guns of a battleship but only the secondary? The latter can indeed be rather weak. Another thing is that the first (long range) barrage is usually not as efficient as are the subsequent ones. Just like Gabe said BBs are very durable and therefore I like to use them as nearly invulnerable decoys for the heavy enemy units while esp. the CAs send the enemy vessels to Davy Jones' Locker. In a mission it might be a good idea to move all ships at the speed of BBs (= three hexes) to keep your forces concentrated.

Epperaliant
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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by Epperaliant » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:14 pm

I have been using primary guns, but mostly on the very edge of the gun's range.
Why do you say that the first barrage is weak? Is there some hidden mechanic?
I thought the few barrages I managed to fire failed because of max range and the fact that the ship had just closed to the target using all his movement to reach it.
I think it was 1 kill projection.

Also, how do you draw enemy fire with the BB?
In my experience, AI always targets the most juicy target that maximize losses, it hardly fires on my hardest units.

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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by CoolDTA » Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:24 am

Epperaliant wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:14 pm
I have been using primary guns, but mostly on the very edge of the gun's range.
Why do you say that the first barrage is weak? Is there some hidden mechanic?
I thought the few barrages I managed to fire failed because of max range and the fact that the ship had just closed to the target using all his movement to reach it.
I think it was 1 kill projection.
Those are indeed the reasons why the first barrage is weak. There may be a hidden mechanic there, too - not uncommon in OoB - to simulate rangefinding. In my experience the first barrage is pretty much always less efficient.
Epperaliant wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:14 pm
Also, how do you draw enemy fire with the BB?
In my experience, AI always targets the most juicy target that maximize losses, it hardly fires on my hardest units.
Well, if you are aggressive with them, it increases the chance of the AI picking one for a target. Of course it can be dangerous to close in if there are enemy DDs with torpedoes ready around. There appears to be a random element involved because sometimes the AI's target selection is odd.

Epperaliant
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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by Epperaliant » Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:48 am

I will experiment more with BBs, thanks for the help.

Anyway, this game is REALLY growing on me, the whole air/navy battle system is simple yet so refined.
This is miles better than Panzer Corps and most likely the best WW2 game I have ever played. And I barely scratched the surface.

CoolDTA
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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by CoolDTA » Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:52 am

Good to hear you like the game. :) If the Pacific campaign is your first one, it is a very good choice. I have all 15 DLCs and Pacific stuff is still my favourite. Best ground/air/naval combination there is. And you are correct imo: the game is surprisingly deep. I like Panzer Corps also (the first one, not PzC2 a.k.a. the disappointment of the decade), but when playing after OoB it always seems to lack something.

GabeKnight
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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by GabeKnight » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:26 am

CoolDTA wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:24 am
There may be a hidden mechanic there, too - not uncommon in OoB - to simulate rangefinding. In my experience the first barrage is pretty much always less efficient.
Didn't notice this myself, but it could be.... there's really much going on "under the hood" than meets the eye.

And agree with cool, the "Pacific stuff" is still my favourite, too. :D

Concerning BBs: There's a whole section with a solid explanation of naval units effective range in the manual IMO, no need to reproduce it here.

Just keep in mind that you can maximize damage to enemy vessels if they haven't moved on their turn:

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Epperaliant
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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by Epperaliant » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:19 pm

What's the best time to buy a BB? Those things are worth 3 cruisers in price, wouldnt like to have to "upgrade" them.

By the way I wished objectives were a little clearer.
I had finished midway and thought I was doing extra fine with all objectives met and low casualties.
Then at the end I noticed that one carrier had sustained 1 point of damage and missed the "Keep all Carriers alive" secondary objective. I thought that the numbers were "health points". Hope the requisition reward I missed wasn't so big.

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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by GabeKnight » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:31 am

In my opinion, you have enough RPs during every scen with both the US and Japan Pacific DLC campaigns to repair all the damage sustained and even upgrade some units "on the fly". I think it's enough to start a scen with about 100RP for the initial turn, otherwise you can spend all you have on upgrades or new units during deployment.
Epperaliant wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:19 pm
Then at the end I noticed that one carrier had sustained 1 point of damage and missed the "Keep all Carriers alive" secondary objective.
Shouldn't be. Damage does not equal destroyed.

Didn't encounter it myself, as you can see one of my carriers also got damaged and it was still a "Major win".

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Epperaliant
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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by Epperaliant » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:57 pm

That's a bug then :(

By the way, I just noticed that the Specialization Panel has a bloody scrolling thing, so I missed all the right side specializations, I feel so silly.
I especially regret not taking Flight School, I am at Guadalcanal and all my planes have around 1 star. Am I crippled for difficulty IV? Should I restart from the first air/naval battle?

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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by jakemon » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:03 am

Ha ha! That Spec scroller got me too. Thanks- I don't feel so silly now...

I say just roll with it. One of the great things about OOB is replayability. You'll be back on Guadalcanal. As I cycle through the DLCs, note taking is a challenge. For example, with the Pacific campaigns, one of things I want to know on the specialization screen is if the next scenario will be land, sea, or both. But I don't want notes that walk me through at a level of detail that takes away the thinking and surprises when I replay next season.

Epperaliant
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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by Epperaliant » Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:08 am

So is it ok to have 1 star planes at Guadalcanal? It is not going to be much harder?
A while ago I read somewhere on this forum that experience has little impact on air units, is that true? (it was a 2015 post I think,back when there was no spec trees, just binary choices).

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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by TheFilthyCasual » Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:36 pm

I believe that the primary guns on battleships get a large damage penalty if the ship has moved before firing. The ship needs to stay where it is to do full damage.

I personally never use them. They're far too expensive for what you get out of them

Epperaliant
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Re: Air/Navy Battles

Post by Epperaliant » Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:01 pm

I bought one just for the lulz, and it's good on defensive battles. Indeed it's the moving around that ruins the barrage, it turns into a regular cruiser barrage, just at longer range.

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