Scapa Flow Kreigsmarine Air Points

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uncajerf
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Scapa Flow Kreigsmarine Air Points

Post by uncajerf » Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:09 pm

So, I've looked around and I can't find anything about what you're supposed to do with Air Points in Scapa Flow scen. without having to buy multiple carriers -- which seems not only highly unrealistic but excessive. Where to deploy your air units? It's supposed to be a joint op (Luftwaffe), after all. :/
Last edited by uncajerf on Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
uncajerf

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LandMarine47
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Re: Scapa Flow Kreigsmarine Air Points

Post by LandMarine47 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:16 am

That is pretty much the entire KM Campaign. You need to essentially never use elite replacements and rush for Plan Z to even have a chance at accomplishing secondary's. Having 2 KM carriers is nonsense but by that point in the campaign, you either have to give up upgrading your main fleet for the 2nd carrier to deploy more air CP, assuming you even have the Plan Z and Carrier Spec.

GabeKnight
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Re: Scapa Flow Kreigsmarine Air Points

Post by GabeKnight » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:10 pm

I understand this DLC is disliked by many players, but it's not that bad IMO. I'm here for the game and don't really mind unhistorical or fictional scens. For example, I would REALLY LOVE an Axis campaign conquering the Americas ("The Man in the High Castle")... 8) :lol:

And the PlanZ spec, yeah you need that for one sec. obj. in one scen that basically gives you nothing as reward. But you don't need that spec to get carriers - to my knowledge it's only needed to get them sooner.

uncajerf
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Re: Scapa Flow Kreigsmarine Air Points

Post by uncajerf » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:36 pm

I have Plan Z, but not the (early) carrier Spec yet. I bought one carrier for this op -- already had a couple of naval bomber/torpedo planes to go with it. Already had a couple of AR196(?) fighters as well, plus a Condor. I ASSUMED I'd be able to deploy Air CP without several more carriers, because, as the description said, it is a joint op with the Luftwaffe.

To me that's now a contradiction, and I cannot use 7AP without more carriers -- which I can't afford. Wasteful, inefficient... and just plain wrong. I don't mean to imply that your 'intelligence reports' should be 100% accurate, but this is something they shouldn't -- CAN'T -- get wrong. It's either a joint op or it's not. (Unless, I suppose, Uncle Hermann changes his mind?) Plus, without fighter cover, my attack aircraft can't get near their objectives before they're shot to pieces. So, using fighters instead of attack craft is pointless. Oh, and you can't even deploy your aircraft on the carrier in the Dep Phase. ???

Anyway, thanx for all replies. I haven't decided what to do about this (and, funny enough, with all the hrs I've put in on this game, and despite being certain that I must have played it before, I can't remember how I did it).

Cheers!


JRR
P.S. Is there a way to mod/cheat a scenario by adding deployment hexes?
Another Edit: What's up with the Low Fuel (air) warnings? And another thing: How come the Brits don't seem to know where their own minefields are? This scen needs work, IMO.
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Erik2
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Re: Scapa Flow Kreigsmarine Air Points

Post by Erik2 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:06 pm

1) You can copy a scenario to the My Games...Scenarios folder, open it in the editor and add deployment hexes. Save the scenario and move it back to the 'game install'... Scenarios folder. Maybe make a backup first.
Questions on scenario editing ishould be posted in the Scenario Design sub-forum. Better hope of getting specific answers there.

2) If an air unit is unable to make it to a hangar/airstrip/off-map air exit before it runs out of fuel, it will start losing strength points. I think this is covered in the manual.

3) The AI (similar to the player) is not aware of the neutral minefields it cannot see and may blunder into it.

Epperaliant
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Re: Scapa Flow Kreigsmarine Air Points

Post by Epperaliant » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:47 pm

Oh yes, I definitely saw the AI blundering into my mined hexes. Actually, sometimes I feel it's better when they actually know of their presence, as they are an excellent area denial tool and I often used them to funnel the enemy attacks where I wanted.

uncajerf
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Re: Scapa Flow Kreigsmarine Air Points

Post by uncajerf » Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:31 pm

@Erik2

1) Thanx.

2) I understand, but my air units start out getting a warning right away, which continues each turn, yet the red hex range warning appears when they are truly running out, showing range to my carrier(s). The former should not happen.

3) "Neutral" minefields? Who laid them? The Swiss? Aliens? Presumably the British laid those mines, so why would they not know they're there? Perhaps they lost the maps, but doesn't make much sense to me. The Player is aware of only one minefield at scenario start -- presumably pre-detected -- but runs into the others readily enough. ;)

@Epperliant

It's different if you (the Player) laid them; the AI should not know where they are (which is why you can't place them when adjacent to enemy). But at game start, they must have been placed by one side or the other. I understand that from that point they're considered 'neutral', insofar as damaging either side. But whoever is presumed to have placed them should not be blundering into them.

Thanx again!


JRR
RE-EDIT: Same thing in next scen. What's worse, despite supposedly having 5 turns to accomplish Sec. Obj. of sinking 3 ships, you Fail @ start of Turn 5. At least, the game announces that you failed, but you can reverse it that turn.
These scenarios are so wonky I think I'll be putting them aside. (I can't believe I missed them before.)
uncajerf

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jakemon
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Re: Scapa Flow Kreigsmarine Air Points

Post by jakemon » Sun May 02, 2021 5:22 pm

uncajerf wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:09 pm
So, I've looked around and I can't find anything about what you're supposed to do with Air Points in Scapa Flow scen. without having to buy multiple carriers -- which seems not only highly unrealistic but excessive. Where to deploy your air units? It's supposed to be a joint op (Luftwaffe), after all. :/
There is a (somewhat horrible) alternative to CVLs: seaplane tenders. Three of the AV Bussards are 150 RPs, use 9 naval CPs, and offer 12 air supply points.

Note this topic describes a tender issue: viewtopic.php?f=264&t=77109

AV Bussard.jpg
AV Bussard.jpg (49.6 KiB) Viewed 169 times

uncajerf
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Re: Scapa Flow Kreigsmarine Air Points

Post by uncajerf » Mon May 03, 2021 8:52 pm

jakemon wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 5:22 pm
There is a (somewhat horrible) alternative to CVLs: seaplane tenders. Three of the AV Bussards are 150 RPs, use 9 naval CPs, and offer 12 air supply points.

<snip>
I saw those, but I assumed(!) they were only for, well, seaplanes. :shock: (And I thought they were rather superfluous since you can use BB & CA -- albeit the latter are a bit impaired if you do). I'll have another look.

Thanx!


JRR
uncajerf

"Artillery adds dignity to what otherwise would be a vulgar brawl." -Frederick the Great

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