Cavalry speed and stats

[Leinad965]

Why cavalry has same speed and other stats as an ordinary infantry, while it costs more? At least Soviet cavalry in Red star campaign

[bebro]

Cavalry is more useful in the early war, when infantry units are still weak. Mid to late-war infantry units are getting stronger.

[Pwnerade]

I always found it strange that cavalry isn't faster. Isn't that the point of the horses?

[Leinad965]

I see, indeed cavalry is stronger in first scenarios.

I agree, isn't ordinary infantry too fast?

[ColonelY]

One could see the cavalry as faster, of course, or simply as more mobile... from this point of view, these units could have "2 steps" instead of one, in short to be able to act like the recon units or like the light tanks that have now gained the "Flexible Pathing" trait, right?

[Erik2]

One could see the cavalry as faster, of course, or simply as more mobile... from this point of view, these units could have "2 steps" instead of one, in short to be able to act like the recon units or like the light tanks that have now gained the "Flexible Pathing" trait, right?

+1
This would make the cav more useful in the late-war.

Ideally we would have cav-39-40-41 etc.
Even the Germans still used cav units in 44-45.

[terminator]

One could see the cavalry as faster, of course, or simply as more mobile... from this point of view, these units could have "2 steps" instead of one, in short to be able to act like the recon units or like the light tanks that have now gained the "Flexible Pathing" trait, right?

It worked very well in one of my mods for both the player and the AI, but I think we should in this case increase the displacement a bit ?

[ColonelY]

At the moment, all cavalry units are at 6. Right as all regular infantry, marines, commando, paratroopers, jap snipers, even many tanks...

Heavies & engineers have 4.

Only the Chinese Militia has 5... It's really the only infantry unit to have 5, by the way. But, compared to some regular chinese infantry with 6 movement points, is that difference really noticeable on the battlefield?

Now, if we consider increasing the movement points of cavalry units:

1. From 6 to 8? It would be as much as for a Sherman tank (to take a point of comparison in principle quite well known by all)... so it might still be a little too much.

2. From 6 to 7? That may be an idea, but would that be noticeable? (As for Chinese infantry, between Militia and regular Infantry?)

What do you think?

[ColonelY]

Otherwise, we could consider adding the trait of "Guerrilla" to make the cavalry less dependent on the type of terrain, but that could perhaps be too much as well...

[terminator]

Otherwise, we could consider adding the trait of "Guerrilla" to make the cavalry less dependent on the type of terrain, but that could perhaps be too much as well...

Partisans on horseback :

01AR5X89.jpg (137 KiB) Viewed 2454 times

[ColonelY]

Yes. In addition, if we consider the famous Russian Cossacks or the French Spahis (and even camel drivers, or meharists), there is indeed plenty of opportunities to bring more variation to the game... (And all these units were very mobile indeed.)

Examples here: https://www.france-libre.net/1er-escadron-rmsm/ , and here in 1944-45: https://www.spahis.fr/2011-03-11-1ere-b ... _1945-3fr/

[prestidigitation]

At the moment, all cavalry units are at 6. Right as all regular infantry, marines, commando, paratroopers, jap snipers, even many tanks...

Heavies & engineers have 4.

Only the Chinese Militia has 5... It's really the only infantry unit to have 5, by the way. But, compared to some regular chinese infantry with 6 movement points, is that difference really noticeable on the battlefield?

Now, if we consider increasing the movement points of cavalry units:

1. From 6 to 8? It would be as much as for a Sherman tank (to take a point of comparison in principle quite well known by all)... so it might still be a little too much.

It’d also be historically accurate, as in the Soviet military emchas were typically used in Cavalry Mechanized Groups or Cavalry Corps due to their automotive reliability, single tank of fuel range and all around impressive capabilities in the exploitation mission. Pairing them with cavalry in game as the Soviets would be a beautiful friendship.

[terminator]

Cavalry movement should be increased :

- Infantry movement in PzC :

InfantryMove.jpg (317.79 KiB) Viewed 2231 times

- Cavalry movement in PzC :

CavalryMove.jpg (600.45 KiB) Viewed 2231 times

[Epperaliant]

I think they should just be treated as faster infantry, as far as I know they fought unmounted.

I wonder how should they react to rough terrain, I really wonder how cavalry would fare there. Probably they would just dismount and move at normal infantry's pace.

[prestidigitation]

I think they should just be treated as faster infantry, as far as I know they fought unmounted.

This is false. As late as 42 divisional cavalry charges were still being used in Rzhev as detailed in Glantz's multi volume coverage of the fighting there. This meant a saber charge on the enemy, typically at night or in poor visibility (fog, rain, snow). If artillery or air support was not immediately brought to bear against them they could devastate a formation in close quarters combat. One of the most famous actions of the early war is the successful Polish saber charge of a German infantry unit that led to the complete dispersal of the German formation. The cavalry had to be driven off by armored cars!

While they did frequently fight dismounted, they typically had fewer supporting elements and were smaller in size compared to infantry units of the same formation type (ex: a cavalry division vs an infantry division) so were usually less effective on the defense. But they also tended -- at least in the Soviet and Polish contexts, but probably also the German one during the early war -- to be more elite and thus better motivated. Every army that used cavalry (French, American, Soviet, Polish, Romanian, Hungarian, German) also tended to equip them with armor or at least armored cars whenever possible. I mentioned one example (the Soviet Cavalry Mechanized formation) which coupled the M4 (emcha in Soviet context) with cavalry, but there were plenty of other configurations along these lines.

Cavalry were extremely vulnerable to air attack when marching mounted so typically moved in columns at night between covered positions when near the front without reasonable likelihood of air cover.

If I were designing cavalry for OOB:WW2 I would emphasize the following traits and stats:

* some shock to reflect their effectiveness on the attack

* better than usual for infantry offensive stats

* a higher than usual price for infantry BUT ideally a lower than usual multiplier for elite reinforcement

* good mobility, ideally coupled with flexible pathing

* quick entrenchment for themselves only, coupled with worse than usual defensive stats (especially against air attack) to reflect their smaller and less well equipped nature

* if possible, a special trait that gives them a bonus when flanking while supported by armor

I wonder how should they react to rough terrain, I really wonder how cavalry would fare there. Probably they would just dismount and move at normal infantry's pace.

They did not have any difficulty maneuvering or charging in light forest, but had to operate dismounted in dense, brush choked forest. OOB:WW2 differentiates between these two types. Hills were no special trouble, mountains depended on the unit as some armies had Mountain Cavalry divisions and when properly equipped with horses shod and trained for mountain warfare and mules for pack duty could be extremely effective although obviously they can't maneuver up or down a sheer face. Mules are often still used to this day in support of mountain warfare, so animals are still very present in this context.

BTW I recommend this book for a decent coverage of the major cavalry user during the conflict:

https://www.amazon.com/Soviet-Cavalry-O ... 8&qid=&sr=

[Epperaliant]

How about giving a bonus damage against low efficiency troops? I can see them saber charging a broken unit.

Maybe coupled with a negative multiplier against entrenched troops.

[Pwnerade]

Saber charge could be a special attack/mode, like Banzai Charge.