Heavy Steel preview

Order of Battle is a series of operational WW2 games starting with the Pacific War and then on to Europe!

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kondi754
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by kondi754 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:34 pm

adherbal wrote:Not present in the Pacific theater so they'll have to make their appearance in a later DLC.
Churchill tank also wasn't used in the Pacific theater, but there is a lot of this type. :?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churchill ... r_theatres

Andy2012
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by Andy2012 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:20 pm

adherbal wrote:AFAIK the Waffen SS did not use anything the Wehrmacht did not, so no unique units for them. Custom unit skins will be brought back soon though, and maybe we can add something to automatically assign the typical Waffen SS camouflage pattern to their vehicles.

It would also be pretty cool if the Waffen SS had other traits that would make these units and the whole specialisation tree stand out. Like regular Wehrmacht units, but with a different edge. Lets say after the first Waffen SS upgrade, you get those extra resources and two infantry units. They are a bit weaker than regular Wehrmacht because they were untrained, awkward goofballs back then. (They were) With more upgrades (Waffen SS I, II and III), the basic Waffen SS units you buy in that tree have better stats than the original Wehrmacht (in the end, they had an edge through fanaticism, new equipment and exp). Would be kinda correct and make that spec tree really pay off. Right now, the Waffen SS are two lightinf without transport to hold down your flanks. Or maybe one tank.

(Of course that also opens up that whole Nazi fanboy sh*tbox, so, yeah...)

best75
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by best75 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:37 am

I hope they make the future German campaign feel like playing the Germans. I heard the blitzkrieg campaign called slogkrieg which is pretty discouraging.

Andy2012
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by Andy2012 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:58 am

best75 wrote:I hope they make the future German campaign feel like playing the Germans. I heard the blitzkrieg campaign called slogkrieg which is pretty discouraging.
I wouldnt believe everything you read right away. I liked Blitzkrieg and it was in my opinion easily the best DLC yet.
Future campaigns may play differently, maybe faster or more difficult. But we will see. But Blitzkrieg is worth the purchase, believe me.

Asap
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by Asap » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:46 am

Andy2012 wrote: (Of course that also opens up that whole Nazi fanboy sh*tbox, so, yeah...)
I just want to mention, that since the SS has officially become part of Order of Battle, I refuse to share this game with my friends on social media. I would have no problem with a different title for these units but to call them SS is a bit too much for me. Panzer Corps had a better solution for this issue, if you ask me.
"The sun is new each day" Heraclitus

Andy2012
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by Andy2012 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:05 am

Asap wrote:
Andy2012 wrote: (Of course that also opens up that whole Nazi fanboy sh*tbox, so, yeah...)
I just want to mention, that since the SS has officially become part of Order of Battle, I refuse to share this game with my friends on social media. I would have no problem with a different title for these units but to call them SS is a bit too much for me. Panzer Corps had a better solution for this issue, if you ask me.
It is a touchy issue. But the Slitherine and Artistocrats' position is that they are interested in history, not politics. The Waffen SS was a faction in WW2, so was the Wehrmacht. Both committed war crimes, that is undeniable. Panzercorps featured Rudel in the Grand Campaign as an Uber-Unit - and he was a decidedly staunch Nazi til the very end. So much for 'better solution'. Still, if you ask me, I cannot come up with any satisfying solution for the whole affair. It will always pop up in wargaming and will probably never be resolved.

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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by Erik2 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:12 am

Calling the Waffen SS something else is only window dressing in my view.
The Japanese committed war crimes also. Excluding Japanese ground troops would mean no original OOB: Pacific.
I think we need to focus on military operations in games like this.

kondi754
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by kondi754 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:39 am

I agree with Erik, the fact that we delete this name from the game will not change anything.
I also think that the removal of such historical symbols as the swastika is also stupid.
I believe that all these symbols and names should be in games but with a historical commentary describing the crimes of the people who exploited them.

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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by Asap » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:40 am

I have met people of the Waffen-SS in my life, so, I know a little about the Waffen-SS. They weren't exactly the SS, which was responsible for concentration camps and mass killings of Jews and other so called "Untermenschen". The Waffen-SS was mainly busy with fighting at all frontlines and most of them were nothing more or less than good and brave soldiers doing their duty, but their lines were not seldom infiltrated by SS men. Of course did the Wehrmacht commit war crimes, my grandfather was an eyewitness of at least one in Yugoslavia, however, I guess, that you can't compare the Wehrmacht or people like Rudel to what the SS has done in Europe, it was pure evil. In my opinion the name "SS" should have no place in this game.
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kondi754
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by kondi754 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:46 am

I think such games like OoB, should give a more accurate presentation of the historical realities.
Removing Nazi symbols from games is against the historical realities.

Andy2012
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by Andy2012 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:36 pm

Asap wrote:In my opinion the name "SS" should have no place in this game.
Well, then spend your spec points elsewhere. Nobody forces you to include them in your playthrough of Blitzkrieg.

@kondi: Swastika is illegal in Germany and Slitherine would not risk closing off that market for them. So there are always business decisions to be made as well.

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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by Asap » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:09 pm

Andy2012 wrote:
Asap wrote:In my opinion the name "SS" should have no place in this game.
Well, then spend your spec points elsewhere. Nobody forces you to include them in your playthrough of Blitzkrieg.
You are right @Andy2012, I can do that but that wasn't my point. Anyway, you know my opinion now, enough said.
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kondi754
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by kondi754 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:46 pm

Andy2012 wrote:
@kondi: Swastika is illegal in Germany and Slitherine would not risk closing off that market for them. So there are always business decisions to be made as well.
Ok, didn't know that.
So I understand now, German market is too precious. :lol:

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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by bru888 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:47 pm

kondi754 wrote:
Andy2012 wrote:
@kondi: Swastika is illegal in Germany and Slitherine would not risk closing off that market for them. So there are always business decisions to be made as well.
Ok, didn't know that.
So I understand now, German market is too precious. :lol:
Andy is right and personally, I am fine without seeing that symbol of bigotry, oppression, and hatred in this game. Unfortunately, the swastika is not dead history but still alive today and performing the same function for some people around the world. And I don't just mean in Germany, obviously. We see it here in America at certain rallies and painted on the sides of religious institutions.

That said, and having climbed down from my pulpit, I will mention that there is a mod available somewhere in these forums. If you search for "swastika," you will find it. Just please keep the use of that symbol private.
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kondi754
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by kondi754 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:49 pm

I mean only compliance with the historical realities. Nothing else.

bru888
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by bru888 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:51 pm

kondi754 wrote:I mean only compliance with the historical realities. Nothing else.
You are one of the good guys. Go get that mod if you want it. :wink:
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GiveWarAchance
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by GiveWarAchance » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:32 pm

Waffen SS were a big part of WW2 so to exclude them means it's no longer WW2, just a sheet of politically correct wallpaper over an epic moment in time.

Asap
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by Asap » Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 pm

One last thing about the Waffen-SS. Some of their units committed war crimes throughout the war: The massacre of Le Paradis for instance in 1940, the massacre of Oradour in 1944 (which was the largest massacre of Western Europe), the massacre of Sant'Anna di Stazzema in Italy 1944 and the Malmedy-massacre in 1944, just to name a few... Similar war crimes committed by units of the Waffen-SS took place in Greece, Yugoslavia and of course in the Soviet Union.
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by NZgunner » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:07 am

Can we really assume the DLC to come is indicated by the icons here - where's Burma Road for example?

Image

Given that DLC is always focused on a campaign for just one side and is sometimes very niche (Winter War), I would expect a bit more than is indicated here. For example, would Liberation include all of North Africa, Sicily and Italy from the US side as well as Overlord, Market Garden, the Bulge, and the end of the Western front - seems unlikely (especially with core unit carry over).

I wonder if there is also scope for more specialist campaigns like Kreigsmarine, maybe a campaign that focuses on the strategic bombing campaign.

I guess the development roadmap is also a very long one - the game has been out for over two years and there's still a huge amount of potential content for Western Europe (I assume the Pacific theatre is now complete), so maybe another 2-3 years of DLC to come.

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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by kondi754 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:40 am

Burma Road = Britannia
Here are temporary (provisional) names for future campaigns but there are all DLCs.
Remember that OoB is operational scale game, so I think 13-14 scenarios is enough for all main US battles in Africa, Italy and Western Europe.
I also miss the air campaign over Europe, but I hope the modders will take care of this.

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