Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

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Der_Kuenstler
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Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

Post by Der_Kuenstler » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:47 am

I'm new to the series and enjoying it but here are two problems I'm seeing:

1) It is possible to load up on trains and train through enemy territory. I've never heard of this in war games. I think you should only be able to ride trains through areas you've already captured.

2) I'm able to buy sea planes for recon. Looks out of place having an Arado 196 flying around with water landing gear over the land battlefields.

I think future patches should fix these...

Andy2012
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Re: Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:51 am

Der_Kuenstler wrote:I'm new to the series and enjoying it but here are two problems I'm seeing:

1) It is possible to load up on trains and train through enemy territory. I've never heard of this in war games. I think you should only be able to ride trains through areas you've already captured.

2) I'm able to buy sea planes for recon. Looks out of place having an Arado 196 flying around with water landing gear over the land battlefields.

I think future patches should fix these...
Never noticed that train thing. Good catch.
The sea plane recon is mostly about economics. 3d modeling takes time, so the devs cut some corners as long as the game works. Maybe a new patch will add a new plane or a different version. But you just have to prioritise development time and spare resources.

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Re: Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:03 am

Der_Kuenstler wrote: 1) It is possible to load up on trains and train through enemy territory. I've never heard of this in war games. I think you should only be able to ride trains through areas you've already captured.
I think the Germans did this in Operation Faustschlag during WWI. They would get on a train, ride it to the next enemy city, jump out, take the city and keep going.

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Mark50
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Re: Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

Post by Mark50 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:42 am

1) It is possible to load up on trains and train through enemy territory. I've never heard of this in war games. I think you should only be able to ride trains through areas you've already captured.
The Germans did it as part of Fall Gelb at Gennep. The commandos siezed the bridge and removed the demolition charges. Minutes later they were followed by an armoured train followed by a freight train carrying an infantry battalion. These went though the Peel line and halted at Mill, 3 km to the west thus, in short time, rendering the Peel line untenable as reinforcements started to arrive and the Dutch were unable to close the gap.

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Re: Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

Post by GiveWarAchance » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:09 pm

In Russia both sides drove around armed trains which probably went through enemy territory a lot too.
Last edited by GiveWarAchance on Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Der_Kuenstler
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Re: Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

Post by Der_Kuenstler » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:47 pm

OK fair enough - I guess I was thinking more of the East Front where the rail gages were different for the Russians than the Germans. It took a lot of modification to get rail going through there.

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Re: Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:39 pm

GiveWarAchance wrote: I heard of some history experts that focus their whole career on one battle like Gallipoli or something. That would fun I think if you could make a career out of it.
Just dont. Ever taught some undergrads? Friends could spare some ungrateful, spoiled sh*theads. Dozens. Door's always open.
"I couldnt turn in my paper, because, I was, like, sick." Yeah, right. :roll:
(Not a history scholar. Just before that whole 'wonder what the mods do' thing starts.)

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Re: Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

Post by GiveWarAchance » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:39 pm

I was thinking of history experts that write books, make documentaries and are battlefield tourguides, not teachers. I would rather stand in front of a heavy Russian tank moving at top speed than be a teacher.
I've seen some content military experts in war documentaries and wanted to do what they are doing. Some are war museum people too I forget name... curators, cured gators or something? Can you imagine the goodness of a career spent telling visitors about tanks in a tank museum. Even the occasional AD from tank cannon when children play around inside the tanks with the controls would not diminish the prospects of that job.

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Re: Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

Post by Andy2012 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:52 pm

GiveWarAchance wrote:I was thinking of history experts that write books, make documentaries and are battlefield tourguides, not teachers. I would rather stand in front of a heavy Russian tank moving at top speed than be a teacher.
I've seen some content military experts in war documentaries and wanted to do what they are doing. Some are war museum people too I forget name... curators, cured gators or something? Can you imagine the goodness of a career spent telling visitors about tanks in a tank museum. Even the occasional AD from tank cannon when children play around inside the tanks with the controls would not diminish the prospects of that job.
You are separating two careers which are one. History experts are usually tenured professors, who have to teach. Before that, there's grad school, which involves teaching and research. Curators in War Museums are mostly Phds, who went through that hell. So good luck being an expert on TV or work in a museum (pay is bad, really bad) without grinding through rows and rows of college sh*theads.

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Re: Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

Post by Andy2012 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:54 pm

Mark50 wrote:
1) It is possible to load up on trains and train through enemy territory. I've never heard of this in war games. I think you should only be able to ride trains through areas you've already captured.
The Germans did it as part of Fall Gelb at Gennep. The commandos siezed the bridge and removed the demolition charges. Minutes later they were followed by an armoured train followed by a freight train carrying an infantry battalion. These went though the Peel line and halted at Mill, 3 km to the west thus, in short time, rendering the Peel line untenable as reinforcements started to arrive and the Dutch were unable to close the gap.
I am always amazed at how much you guys around here know down to operational details. Keep it up, this makes this place fun. (But lets not forget, it is a game.)

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Re: Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

Post by AceDuceTrey » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:43 pm

Yes, but the more accurate/authentic the game the more enjoyable; and the more games you sell! With a military career I did occasionally have to teach but
enjoyed war gaming the most. Back in the late 70s I was assigned to evaluate commercial (manual/board) war games for their potential use as officer
training aids. We started with "Mech War 77" and micro armor. Company grade officers naturally preferred these games because of their Company down to
squad scale. Field grade officers likes those games that allowed "stacking" so that they could organize their own unique combined arms "units".

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Re: Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

Post by GiveWarAchance » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:00 pm

Andy2012 wrote: You are separating two careers which are one. History experts are usually tenured professors, who have to teach. Before that, there's grad school, which involves teaching and research. Curators in War Museums are mostly Phds, who went through that hell. So good luck being an expert on TV or work in a museum (pay is bad, really bad) without grinding through rows and rows of college sh*theads.
Dan Snow and his dad Peter must have missed that memo.

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Re: Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

Post by Andy2012 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:10 am

GiveWarAchance wrote:
Andy2012 wrote: You are separating two careers which are one. History experts are usually tenured professors, who have to teach. Before that, there's grad school, which involves teaching and research. Curators in War Museums are mostly Phds, who went through that hell. So good luck being an expert on TV or work in a museum (pay is bad, really bad) without grinding through rows and rows of college sh*theads.
Dan Snow and his dad Peter must have missed that memo.
Just looked that guy up. Has a master's in history. And there's presenting and being an expert.

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Re: Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

Post by Andy2012 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:15 am

AceDuceTrey wrote:Yes, but the more accurate/authentic the game the more enjoyable; and the more games you sell! With a military career I did occasionally have to teach but
enjoyed war gaming the most. Back in the late 70s I was assigned to evaluate commercial (manual/board) war games for their potential use as officer
training aids. We started with "Mech War 77" and micro armor. Company grade officers naturally preferred these games because of their Company down to
squad scale. Field grade officers likes those games that allowed "stacking" so that they could organize their own unique combined arms "units".
"Sir, the enemy is rolling up our flank, the mortars are misfiring and two squad leaders are K.I.A . What do we do now?"
"Hold my rifle and watch me roll the dice. My trusty twenty-side will save the day" :mrgreen:

Sorry, couldnt resist. But as a brain exercise for top brass, playing some wargames seems to be a good choice.

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Re: Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

Post by AceDuceTrey » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:34 pm

Der_Kuenstler wrote:I'm new to the series and enjoying it but here are two problems I'm seeing:

1) It is possible to load up on trains and train through enemy territory. I've never heard of this in war games. I think you should only be able to ride trains through areas you've already captured.

2) I'm able to buy sea planes for recon. Looks out of place having an Arado 196 flying around with water landing gear over the land battlefields.

I think future patches should fix these...
As for the Navy's Observation Scout Arado 196, the Army's HS 126 Recon should have been the model chosen. Also, the first Japanese "strategic" bomber
should have been the Army's Ki-21, not the Navy's B3M long range Patrol Torpedo Bomber.

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Re: Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

Post by bebro » Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:18 am

These are certainly valid points, but given there's a huge number of different models already in the game (and it will increase still with every DLC) at some point compromises are made to keep workload under control.

A seaplane could operate at least from rivers and lakes too, but a land based recon plane would not be much useful in a naval environment - so the choice was for the Arado.

Beyond that actual combat units get more attention than aux units like air recon, but not every possible type can make it in.

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Re: Two problems I see in OOB Blitzkrieg...

Post by Andy2012 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:56 pm

bebro wrote:These are certainly valid points, but given there's a huge number of different models already in the game (and it will increase still with every DLC) at some point compromises are made to keep workload under control.

A seaplane could operate at least from rivers and lakes too, but a land based recon plane would not be much useful in a naval environment - so the choice was for the Arado.

Beyond that actual combat units get more attention than aux units like air recon, but not every possible type can make it in.
Agree. Dont care much about recon. But please dont be skimpy when doing the next Wehrmacht DLC. All those myriad versions of tanks to obsess over and wonder what works best is the core of any Wehrmacht campaign. Do I go for Tigers, wait for Panthers or save money KingTigers? Is the Bf109 G-8, G-10 or K best and why? Do I go for Ju87D bombers or the Ju87g variants with cannons?

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