Why I don't think export core will work for German campaign

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koopanique
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Re: Why I don't think export core will work for German campa

Post by koopanique » Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:00 pm

Andy2012 wrote:See, I never used the renaming option here or in Panzercorps. I've seen people do it and obsess about that and naming their units 'Totenkopf', 'Viking', 'Leibstandarte' and so on (all notorious Nazi fanatic units with a large roster of warcrimes). This has always creeped me out.
Well damn, I'm not expert enough in the field of strategy games to notice this. That is indeed creepy. Personally the only units I love to rename are my ships. It bothers me when several ships of the same class have the same name; and I feel more attached to ships that have fancy names I gave them myself.
Andy2012 wrote:My idea is that self-improvement motivates us all (it should, at least) and hunting and gathering is one of our human instincts. Improving your core with new weapons and maybe improving your commanders with more powerful effects over the course of the campaign can increase immersion. You are still controlling a large army, they are just more customized. And you can again ponder and obsess which upgrades to get to your commanders.
I see, but I still wouldn't like two units of the same class to be too far apart from each other. What would be the point of having several unit classes then? I would like better to have more different units that I deliberately purchased to have a diverse army, rather than several units of the same type (say, three US infantry 43) that I have modified during the campaign.
But it comes down to personal preference anyway; the devs will do what they feel best.

Andy2012
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Re: Why I don't think export core will work for German campa

Post by Andy2012 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:48 pm

koopanique wrote: I see, but I still wouldn't like two units of the same class to be too far apart from each other. What would be the point of having several unit classes then? I would like better to have more different units that I deliberately purchased to have a diverse army, rather than several units of the same type (say, three US infantry 43) that I have modified during the campaign.
But it comes down to personal preference anyway; the devs will do what they feel best.
Well, you would upgrade your commanders from rookie Lieutenants to top brass Colonel or whatever. Your units would stay the same as they are now. Even though light infantry or Marines for the jungle missions (all without transport) are pretty much the best option to mass buy and then deploy in almost any mission. (I think I wrote this elsewhere already. Lightinf, light AT, light arty, all no transport is a very powerful unit combination. And cheap.) So a diverse army isnt really that much of a priority in OoB right now. At least I feel that way. Sure, you have to use tanks, airpower and arty to win and there is always strategy involved and the game has the supply system for extra depth - but it is definitely not the case that a diverse army of specialists is always needed or the most efficient. There are unit types I never used because they are not necessary or not cost efficient, e.g. HeavyInf (slow, expensive), BBs (slow, expensive, secondary not useful in Kriegsmarine), subs (same), 88 AT (good stats, but too slow), strat bombers (air control points better invested in fighters and tac bombers). Not saying OoB isnt fun (I enjoy it a lot), but there are certain unit types I feel I dont particularly need or should never use if I want to win. To be fair, Panzercorps kind of had the same problem.
And you are definitely right about personal preference. Everybody should enjoy this game the way they want. :D

bru888
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Re: Why I don't think export core will work for German campa

Post by bru888 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:17 pm

adherbal wrote:We are planning the next German DLC more specifically with core importing in mind. This should include importing Commanders (who will also be getting some unique traits).

I'm not sure how experience will be handled. Setting an experience limit per campaign may work, but dropping it by X% for each consecutive campaign is essentially the same thing if X decreases each time.

For Example you play Blitzkrieg and get a number of 5 star units. Those are reduced to 3 star units at the start of the next campaign (-40% XP for every unit). Then in the 3rd campaign any units that worked their way up to 5 stars again are now reduced to 4 stars (-20%).
That gives more or less the same result as reducing XP gain and setting a cap of 3 stars for the 1 DLC and 4 stars for the 3nd DLC.
As usual in this type of conversation, I worry about the integrity of previous DLC. :?
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Andy2012
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Re: Why I don't think export core will work for German campa

Post by Andy2012 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:43 pm

@bru: Yeah, but that is always the problem with a DLC release format and such a small team. But they have that quick update mechanism now, so bugfixes should be fast. Hopefully.

best75
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Re: Why I don't think export core will work for German campa

Post by best75 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:22 am

I think the fact that OOB uses a command point system to Panzer Corps slot system for deploying core units will help balanced. I remember a discussion about this a while ago. Since each unit uses a single core slot and you have a limited number of core slot its always more efficient to get the best units. This meant units like AT were not used often and the players would always go for tigers instead of say Panzer 4s because. In OOB since a supply system is used, a Panzer 4 should cost less CP than a Tiger tank which should make it a more attractive option.

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Re: Why I don't think export core will work for German campa

Post by Erik2 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:29 am

There are differences in tank CP costs.
But the differences could be greater, 5 CPs for a Panzer I is a bit much.
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Andy2012
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Re: Why I don't think export core will work for German campa

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:22 pm

Erik wrote:There are differences in tank CP costs.
But the differences could be greater, 5 CPs for a Panzer I is a bit much.
Yeah, but only later in the campaign. Anyways, this might really become a problem with the progressing German campaign. While everybody else managed to mass produce a certain tank and be done with it, the Wehrmacht had a flurry of types. This might make things difficult. But on the other hand, that is what makes any German campaign so interesting. You can obsess for hours and hours which one to upgrade, keep, save money for that Tiger you totally need or wait for Panther Gs.
As bru said, this might be difficult. And with OoB growing over DLCs, the strain will be there.

econ21
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Re: Why I don't think export core will work for German campa

Post by econ21 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:46 pm

Andy2012 wrote:See, I never used the renaming option here or in Panzercorps. I've seen people do it and obsess about that and naming their units 'Totenkopf', 'Viking', 'Leibstandarte' and so on (all notorious Nazi fanatic units with a large roster of warcrimes). This has always creeped me out.
Renaming is fun if you are trying to emulate a "historical" cores. I originally picked this up from Panzer General 2, where I'd call a unit "2 Panzer/2 Pz" or some such, to represent the second Panzer regiment of my second Panzer division. Maybe a little obsessive, but not creepy. The scale in Panzer General type games is always ambiguous but in Panzer Corps, viewing a unit as a regiment or battalion often was defensible. E.g. in the battle of Prokhorovka DLC43E scenario, the three distinct battlegroups on the map clearly represent three historical divisions (including two of the three creepy ones you named!). There's a nice thread on building historical cores in the PC forum.

I haven't bought OOB yet, but am replaying the GC from Panzer Corps - that game really came to life for me with the DLCs. The base campaign just seemed to skip a little too quickly over the mid-war years, while I found the GCs were very immersive. I'm thinking of picking up OOB and will be interested to see where the game goes. Eric's port of the Panzer Corps GC sounds perfect.

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Re: Why I don't think export core will work for German campa

Post by Andy2012 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:15 pm

econ21 wrote: Renaming is fun if you are trying to emulate a "historical" cores. I originally picked this up from Panzer General 2, where I'd call a unit "2 Panzer/2 Pz" or some such, to represent the second Panzer regiment of my second Panzer division. Maybe a little obsessive, but not creepy. The scale in Panzer General type games is always ambiguous but in Panzer Corps, viewing a unit as a regiment or battalion often was defensible. E.g. in the battle of Prokhorovka DLC43E scenario, the three distinct battlegroups on the map clearly represent three historical divisions (including two of the three creepy ones you named!). There's a nice thread on building historical cores in the PC forum.

I haven't bought OOB yet, but am replaying the GC from Panzer Corps - that game really came to life for me with the DLCs. The base campaign just seemed to skip a little too quickly over the mid-war years, while I found the GCs were very immersive. I'm thinking of picking up OOB and will be interested to see where the game goes. Eric's port of the Panzer Corps GC sounds perfect.
Well, not debating history here. I dont mind the Waffen SS in this game here that much. If you name your units with correct names, go for it. If they were Waffen SS divisions, why not. I just meant that some people express their rather odd admiration for the Third Reich this way. I have seen walkthroughs on youtube for Panzercorps with Hitler speeches playing in the background. Put shortly, history is fine, fascism not so much. That is what I meant.
Oh yeah, you should definitely play all of Eriks ports for OoB's Panzercorps campaigns. They are free, just like the base game. Get the base game, get Erik's campaigns, start playing. And say thank you to Erik for providing you free (!) entertainment. :D

Asap
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Re: Why I don't think export core will work for German campa

Post by Asap » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:54 am

If you ask me and if possible, I would change the whole experience-system of OoB, to try out something more or less "new". Every unit should have the chance of getting a commander, including enemy units. Units should have only three different stages (or even none): Recruit, Veteran and Elite. Earning medals instead of stars and experience points. A commander should effect the moral of his unit in first place (a small combat bonus) and at some point, maybe medal based, add a special skill to it, like "Light Freight", "Digger", "Guerillia", +1 movement or +1 sight and so on. I would change unit-efficiency to unit-moral.
Anyone out there who thinks this sounds quite interesting?
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Andy2012
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Re: Why I don't think export core will work for German campa

Post by Andy2012 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:52 am

Asap wrote:If you ask me and if possible, I would change the whole experience-system of OoB, to try out something more or less "new". Every unit should have the chance of getting a commander, including enemy units. Units should have only three different stages (or even none): Recruit, Veteran and Elite. Earning medals instead of stars and experience points. A commander should effect the moral of his unit in first place (a small combat bonus) and at some point, maybe medal based, add a special skill to it, like "Light Freight", "Digger", "Guerillia", +1 movement or +1 sight and so on. I would change unit-efficiency to unit-moral.
Anyone out there who thinks this sounds quite interesting?
Interesting yes, difficult to balance yes, adds a ton of workload on a small team. Probably not practical hence.

Asap
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Re: Why I don't think export core will work for German campa

Post by Asap » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:26 am

Andy2012 wrote:Interesting yes, difficult to balance yes, adds a ton of workload on a small team. Probably not practical hence.
I thought about such changes, because I have lots of 5 star elite units soon in every campaign and the enemy has mostly none, that makes the fighting for me a little boring at times. Perhaps a "random fight-results" option could change that, or you take away the unit experience-system and focus a little more on commanders instead. The medals aren't essential but they always look nice, though :wink:
However, I know it's a lot of work, you are certainly right Andy. These changes would turn the whole game into something different and not everyone would be amused about it but perhaps it's a nice idea for OoB 2 or Panzer Corps 2 :)
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Re: Why I don't think export core will work for German campa

Post by Erik2 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:02 am

In my custom campaign scenarios I add experience to the AI units as well as friendly aux units.
I also give the AI enough resources to be able to repair units properly (like the player will do).
I think this method is better than balancing the game by giving the AI increasing number of units.
And you prevent those stupid AI suicide attacks with low strength/low efficiency units.

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