Difficulty Levels are out of balance

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Yolo911
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Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by Yolo911 » Wed May 16, 2018 8:00 pm

Once again I buy your products thinking maybe the design team has been replaced and reasonable people have taken over. But no, that is not the case. Why do you have difficulty levels 4 and 5 when level 3 is impossible? I have been playing OOB since you sold the first copy and I always play at level 3. But I can never progress to another level because 3 is so difficult. I always have to use cheat codes and add thousands of points just to keep the units reinforced. I tried the first scenario of Sandstone and by the time I reached Tobruk I had nothing left to attack with that could get past the damn artillery.
Yeah, I know that someone will chirp in and say they conquered the entire scenario in five turns and didn't loose a unit. But the average player, and I have spent literately hundreds of hours playing this game, would like to think they can progress to another level and that way the game will have replay value. TONE IT DOWN.

Navman2854
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by Navman2854 » Wed May 16, 2018 8:15 pm

Yolo911 wrote:Once again I buy your products thinking maybe the design team has been replaced and reasonable people have taken over. But no, that is not the case. Why do you have difficulty levels 4 and 5 when level 3 is impossible? I have been playing OOB since you sold the first copy and I always play at level 3. But I can never progress to another level because 3 is so difficult. I always have to use cheat codes and add thousands of points just to keep the units reinforced. I tried the first scenario of Sandstone and by the time I reached Tobruk I had nothing left to attack with that could get past the damn artillery.
Yeah, I know that someone will chirp in and say they conquered the entire scenario in five turns and didn't loose a unit. But the average player, and I have spent literately hundreds of hours playing this game, would like to think they can progress to another level and that way the game will have replay value. TONE IT DOWN.
I have to respectfully disagree, Level 3 is not easy but every scenario is winnable. Not sure how you're playing but what I had to find out the hard way is not to try and achieve every objective. In other words, concentrate on the Primary objectives (which you have to achieve) and forget the secondaries until you get a firm handle on what strategies to use. Trust me, I was a little frustrated at first too but finally figured some things out. :idea:

kondi754
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by kondi754 » Wed May 16, 2018 8:18 pm

Yolo911 wrote:Once again I buy your products thinking maybe the design team has been replaced and reasonable people have taken over. But no, that is not the case. Why do you have difficulty levels 4 and 5 when level 3 is impossible? I have been playing OOB since you sold the first copy and I always play at level 3. But I can never progress to another level because 3 is so difficult. I always have to use cheat codes and add thousands of points just to keep the units reinforced. I tried the first scenario of Sandstone and by the time I reached Tobruk I had nothing left to attack with that could get past the damn artillery.
Yeah, I know that someone will chirp in and say they conquered the entire scenario in five turns and didn't loose a unit. But the average player, and I have spent literately hundreds of hours playing this game, would like to think they can progress to another level and that way the game will have replay value. TONE IT DOWN.
You don't need to get Tobruk in 1st scenario.
Rommel also didn't do it! :wink:
I think you should carefully read what are the goals of the mission and play again.
I'm happy with voices like yours, now I know we've done a great job! :twisted:

Andy2012
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by Andy2012 » Wed May 16, 2018 8:19 pm

Yolo911 wrote:Once again I buy your products thinking maybe the design team has been replaced and reasonable people have taken over. But no, that is not the case. Why do you have difficulty levels 4 and 5 when level 3 is impossible? I have been playing OOB since you sold the first copy and I always play at level 3. But I can never progress to another level because 3 is so difficult. I always have to use cheat codes and add thousands of points just to keep the units reinforced. I tried the first scenario of Sandstone and by the time I reached Tobruk I had nothing left to attack with that could get past the damn artillery.
Yeah, I know that someone will chirp in and say they conquered the entire scenario in five turns and didn't loose a unit. But the average player, and I have spent literately hundreds of hours playing this game, would like to think they can progress to another level and that way the game will have replay value. TONE IT DOWN.
Tell us more what you are doing, maybe we can help. You can also post a replay (zipped).

13obo
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by 13obo » Wed May 16, 2018 10:52 pm

If 3 is hard, u got 2 and 1 as well...

Taare
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by Taare » Thu May 17, 2018 1:41 am

Yolo911 wrote:Once again I buy your products thinking maybe the design team has been replaced and reasonable people have taken over. But no, that is not the case. Why do you have difficulty levels 4 and 5 when level 3 is impossible? I have been playing OOB since you sold the first copy and I always play at level 3. But I can never progress to another level because 3 is so difficult. I always have to use cheat codes and add thousands of points just to keep the units reinforced. I tried the first scenario of Sandstone and by the time I reached Tobruk I had nothing left to attack with that could get past the damn artillery.
Yeah, I know that someone will chirp in and say they conquered the entire scenario in five turns and didn't loose a unit. But the average player, and I have spent literately hundreds of hours playing this game, would like to think they can progress to another level and that way the game will have replay value. TONE IT DOWN.
i feel your pain. While I do not have the same problems, i understand your point of view. And you are right. There is no balance, for every unit you have the enemy has 5 or there abouts, they also get rps, to reinfore their units. I agree with you completely, as a player with over 800 hours of playtime and i have bought everything, finished several campaigns at lvl 5 and every one except winter war at lvl 4. I think i am about done with the game, It becomes tedious, never enough rps to have fun and experiment and you really have to rush the objectives.

cutydt02
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by cutydt02 » Thu May 17, 2018 5:31 am

Even more than winter war ? I think this challegen would be very tough. About the levels, i cant think how you guys can finish with all level 4 because 3 is enough for my headache (except winter war of course, level 3 nearly impossible). And upgrade cost always so high (tiger H->E 1/2 cost wtf?? And some tanks like panzer 3 has many upgrades). I think difficult levels should be like panzer corps (i have enough experiment to pass field marshan camps and general grand camps after 100h playing)

Andy2012
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by Andy2012 » Thu May 17, 2018 6:19 am

@all: Guys, I will post my playthrough and talk about strategy in my review thread. This is doable and winnable when following a few hints.
I guess Mojko will post replays, too. Dont give up yet.

Erik2
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by Erik2 » Thu May 17, 2018 7:17 am

The initial scenarios during beta was a bit hard.
This was changed and several of the beta testers thought the final ones maybe was too easy :D
The beta testers usually managed to play through the campaign at least two times so of course we learned how to prioritize the objectives.
In my view the balance is good in the final version.
And as other have commented, make sure you do not over-stretch and try to grab every secondary objective. Focus on the primaries.
Lastly, you really need to add transports to all your units. Otherwise you can't keep the momentum going.

Shards
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by Shards » Thu May 17, 2018 11:50 am

Also, for the time being, make sure you strike West early on Halfaya Pass. That seems to have got more difficult than what I saw in the Beta (where you could recapture the NW objective after losing it)

Yolo911
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by Yolo911 » Thu May 17, 2018 5:09 pm

I moved on to Scenario number 2. Is there a cheat to bypass this scenario? How in hell are you suppose to hold that hex in the upper left corner of the map when you aren't even allowed to deploy a unit there at the start? And the Germans can't beat the British units there from the German deployment hexes. And the Italians cant hold out in the victory hex they are suppose to defend with two units versus all of the British army.


And I really loved the invisible British jeeps in the first scenario that keep teleporting from location to location holding up German tank columns.

Andy2012
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by Andy2012 » Thu May 17, 2018 5:17 pm

Yolo911 wrote:I moved on to Scenario number 2. Is there a cheat to bypass this scenario? How in hell are you suppose to hold that hex in the upper left corner of the map when you aren't even allowed to deploy a unit there at the start? And the Germans can't beat the British units there from the German deployment hexes. And the Italians cant hold out in the victory hex they are suppose to defend with two units versus all of the British army.


And I really loved the invisible British jeeps in the first scenario that keep teleporting from location to location holding up German tank columns.
I will take a look and post about my playthrough.
For the time being, the invisible British jeeps are LRDG scouts. You can see and kill them with infantry or your own recon units. Thats not a bug.

Erik2
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by Erik2 » Thu May 17, 2018 5:48 pm

You move a couple of units from top center to top left of the map.
Wait for the British and destroy them. Then move your units down to the main part of the battlefield.

TripleCP
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by TripleCP » Thu May 17, 2018 6:44 pm

It's fine. I hadn't fired up OoB for a while when I started a Level 3 campaign and completed all secondary objectives for Tobruk on the first try. Lost the second scenario on Turn 3 or 4 but that's okay...I like that you can now lose a battle and continue. Got my revenge on the Operation Crusader scenario.
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jeff00t
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by jeff00t » Fri May 18, 2018 8:55 am

for me, at level 3 , i usually win the fisrt try of each scenario in a campaign but with too many injured units , so i always do a second try to complete the scenario to get minimal losses. But even if deploying carefully ours troops, there is always a big part of chance: sometimes you deploy too many units in south instead of north etc ... that's why i have never understood why in the scenarios, there is not some more informations on strenght and number of enemy units. There could be more strategy in the game when we know for example that there is a "gap" in the defensive enemy line . but this gap, we only discover it after deploying....
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AgentTBC
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by AgentTBC » Sun May 20, 2018 9:38 pm

I don't really understand the complaint that the game is too hard because you have to play on normal difficulty. The majority of players should be on normal difficulty! If everyone plays on the higher difficulty levels it means the game is too easy. Maybe it is an ego thing? Everyone wants to feel like they're really good.

I suggest renaming the difficulties so that the current easy is called average and the current average is called hard. That way everyone can be above average. It's the Spinal Tap theory of difficulty levels.

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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by AgentTBC » Sun May 20, 2018 10:13 pm

That said, Sandstorm strikes me as more difficult than previous theaters. Which is a good thing! I play on the 4th (2nd hardest) difficulty and I couldn't take Tobruk in #1 which was quite refreshing. And I'm still not sure I'll be able to take Tobruk without save scumming in the Crusader scenario (whatever its called) although I shouldn't have to order a general retreat. I don't know what happens if I prevent the British from relieving the siege but can't take the city. And not knowing the outcome is interesting.

So count me as one vote for the difficulty balance in Sandstorm being quite well handled.

CoolDTA
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by CoolDTA » Mon May 21, 2018 9:11 am

AgentTBC wrote:
So count me as one vote for the difficulty balance in Sandstorm being quite well handled.
+1

tula1959
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by tula1959 » Tue May 22, 2018 6:41 pm

I have spent many hundreds of hours on this game system now and feel more than comfortable saying that I am no newbie!! Have completed full campaigns of US Pacific, Morning Sun, Rising Sun,
Blitzkrieg, Winter War, and US Marines. I have also played through a good number of the available custom scenarios and am now well in to Erik's Germany Grand campaign.

I have played my way through all of this on Level 2 - and I will say that for the most part I have had to resort to extra CP and RP to make a go of it. In so many scenarios I am so outnumbered by the units of the computer that I often watch in disbelief as they keep flowing in on me like ocean waves! The CP limits given are often far too few to withstand the onslaughts, and or, are too few to crack the defenses. Most of the time I DO NOT achieve all of the secondary objectives and am more than happy to have managed the primaries.

Most of the time I can not even imagine playing on Level 3 and being able to win after seeing what I just went through to do so on Level 2!! I know my strategy and tactics are good but they are not good enough to pull that off, let alone consider and even higher Level.

Mojko
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Re: Difficulty Levels are out of balance

Post by Mojko » Tue May 22, 2018 7:24 pm

The irony of this thread is that complaining that game is difficult on higher difficulty levels is actually a compliment to the balance team because that is the intention. I will join the train as well. I'm very pleased with the balance in Sandstorm DLC, the missions are quite difficult on Middle difficulty and I really enjoy that. I also appreciate much effort that is put by balance team into balancing 5 difficulty levels for each scenario. Well done!
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