3DS MAX??

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Admiral_Horthy
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3DS MAX??

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:46 pm

Hello fellow modelers... I'm a bit frustrated here. I did get the script, it's in the Script/Startup.... but nothing I can find in the Customize UI menu or any of it's subs!! I tried both 32bit and 64bit - nothing. What am I supposed to do to make this work?

EDIT> I had to run the script manually, and after then, I got a GGG something on the list that made a OOB icon finally. Sorry but I did what was written... maybe that I use Max 2009 that why it's different


EDIT2> ... but all for vain since it does nothing. At least the game failst to accept the model... I did create an MBT. Added the texture and the MBT in the mod/units. The MBT was not translated, the game stops at the moment I try to start the scenario with the object on the map. Frack, I thought maybe it refuses to work in the mod folder like the music. In game/64bit/content it also fails. Then I thought the texture format is bad... I made PNG... does not work. I did TGA, with alpha without alpha, whatever I do no luck. I reduced the texture size to 512, was 1024 before. No luck with any of the formats. What program shall I use, what format what size... :evil:

GabeKnight
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Re: 3DS MAX??

Post by GabeKnight » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:57 pm

All I can tell you is, that the model import from 3DSMax worked with v5.2.9 of the game from the regular mod folder. For the imported models to work, you don't need the textures. You'll get kind of a white unit model (like in the late wreck bugs) then. Did you try the Max export script on the provided Churchill test model? Did that work okay? I've always used that as reference. Also the generated MDT files are pure text-geometry files, you can open them with an editor and recheck if everything's worked okay.

Admiral_Horthy
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Re: 3DS MAX??

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:36 am

Tha nks Gabe... I try to narrow down the problem but there are open questions which were not stated in the tutorial.. Like what is the vertex limit... texture resolution... hierarchy limits... And were were given a tank object as example - its seems it does not work with my air unit.
Of course I tried to export the example file... here is the result
Screenshot 1.jpg
Screenshot 1.jpg (237.97 KiB) Viewed 1420 times
When I put the unit on the map, it looks normal, but when I start the scenario (and in that moment the MBT file will be translated to MDB) the Churchill will fall apart like the above scr shows....

So, back to my model, it is not translated - not even recognized - it does not meet the requirements which I am not aware of....

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Re: 3DS MAX??

Post by GabeKnight » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:55 am

Admiral_Horthy wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:36 am
Tha nks Gabe... I try to narrow down the problem but there are open questions which were not stated in the tutorial.. Like what is the vertex limit... texture resolution... hierarchy limits... And were were given a tank object as example - its seems it does not work with my air unit.
Of course I tried to export the example file... here is the result
Strange. So far I've not experienced something like this. I don't think there is a "realistic" vertex limit, I've seen models with >1,5MB MDT files to work okay. Also I've used a simple 512x512 PNG as texture and it works as well as TGA files.

For example, the churchill test model with one of teminator's skins ("test6_land_germany" - unchanged!) as texture. Works okay, moves okay, looks a bit odd maybe. I didn't assign no weapons effects to the model but I suppose it to work okay, too, if you obide by the hierarchy structure and model's naming rules set by adherbal.
(although I think the "propellor" effect didn't work - but using "radar" for helicopter rotors does work)

Screenshot 627.jpg
Screenshot 627.jpg (459.71 KiB) Viewed 1394 times
Admiral_Horthy wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:36 am
When I put the unit on the map, it looks normal, but when I start the scenario (and in that moment the MBT file will be translated to MDB) the Churchill will fall apart like the above scr shows....

So, back to my model, it is not translated - not even recognized - it does not meet the requirements which I am not aware of....
You sure the export script's actually working okay?

Admiral_Horthy
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Re: 3DS MAX??

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:15 am

You sure the export script's actually working okay?
That's what I have no idea of... No one told what version of MAX it supports, what limits there might be. Maybe it would be good to receive aircraft or gun demo unit as well... perhaps the translation depends on the unit class??

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Re: 3DS MAX??

Post by GabeKnight » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:46 am

Admiral_Horthy wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:15 am
That's what I have no idea of... No one told what version of MAX it supports, what limits there might be. Maybe it would be good to receive aircraft or gun demo unit as well... perhaps the translation depends on the unit class??
Sorry, can't help you there. The script worked for me with no problems from the start. Imported the churchill FBX file, exported via script and imported into OoB. No errors.

It did take some time for me to realize why my models weren't accepted at first, though, but after analyzing the MDT files and some experimenting, it all became quite clear to me. As I'm no modeler and used Max for the first time when I was building my mod in OoB, most of its functions are still unclear to me.
But, as said, the script basically generates a plain text file with the model's mesh/geometry as coordinate-tuples for OoB to import. No animations, textures, materials, etc. are being exported (!). That way it's easy to check if the script did run okay or not - don't know if you'll get an error message if something's missing in the model or gone wrong during export ...

I do have a working plane model, but I don't think it wil help you much more than the churchill example file. I'll attach the working churchill MDT, so you can double-check for yourself.
Attachments
churchill.rar
(4.58 KiB) Downloaded 32 times

pipfromslitherine
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Re: 3DS MAX??

Post by pipfromslitherine » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:11 pm

My initial help for MAX exporting is always "reset the transforms before exporting" as these often cause issues.

Cheers

Pip
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bebro
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Re: 3DS MAX??

Post by bebro » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:17 pm

We aimed for 3d models with ca. 500 faces, but it's not a hard limit, some have less, but many units are rather between 500-1000.

Texture maps are 512 x 512 TGA indeed. Higher res might work, but both model detail and texture size affects how much resources the game needs.

Of course it may work well with hardware you use, but if you want to distribute a mod to others it might turn out differently.

Admiral_Horthy
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Re: 3DS MAX??

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:10 am

Thanks guys... it gives a little faith, I almost gave up.

Yes, my models are often more than 10K or even 30-50K as they were made for a simulator not for little game figures. I have to use the LOD2 or LOD3 models they are around 1-3K. The Huey is 5.9K

What I am still worried about if the script works well in my MAX 2009, which I must use because it's semi original (not mine but legal) and the exporter for the simulator is only for 32bit MAX 2009

I keep trying if I can get a simple model working first.

EDIT: Just a little question more... is it possible or would be possible to mod infantry? Or their components? I have zillions of little (not so low poly) weapons and guys to use.
manus.jpg
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huey.jpg
huey.jpg (332.46 KiB) Viewed 1319 times
I really thought about OOB Vietnam seriously )

GabeKnight
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Re: 3DS MAX??

Post by GabeKnight » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:41 am

pipfromslitherine wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:11 pm
My initial help for MAX exporting is always "reset the transforms before exporting" as these often cause issues.

Cheers

Pip
Thanks for this tip, Pip, worked wonders for me. I've been struggling how to change the scaled measurements to "absolute" coordinates. Now I know...

St-Emil_ART1.jpg
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The Bomber model had about 30000 faces and resulted in a 1.7MB MDB unit file. Played okay on my rig. Another successfully (out of MAX) exported model of the "Falcon" had about 150K and was not accepted into OoB anymore.

I'm pretty sure I'll never touch any of the infantry or cavalry models. Way too intricate for me.

And if any of the gentlemen could answer one additional question, I'd be really grateful:

The weapons (and damage, I suppose) hardpoints are basically small octahedrons representing the locations. Now, is there a really fast way to create one of those on the required spots of the new models? You see, I'm not so much interested in getting to know MAX better. Actually all I want to do is to convert some models to be used within OoB with the least amount of time wasted on my side. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Octahedron-201020429061.jpg
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St-Emil_ART2.jpg
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bebro
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Re: 3DS MAX??

Post by bebro » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:46 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:41 am
The Bomber model had about 30000 faces and resulted in a 1.7MB MDB unit file.
It's not much of a prob to have some bigger models. But OOB has hundreds of units overall, so with only high detail models the player would pay a price at some pt. as there are usually lots of units present on-map in various scns.

The weapons (and damage, I suppose) hardpoints are basically small octahedrons representing the locations. Now, is there a really fast way to create one of those on the required spots of the new models? You see, I'm not so much interested in getting to know MAX better. Actually all I want to do is to convert some models to be used within OoB with the least amount of time wasted on my side. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Dunno if I understand the issue. I made most (not all) of the unit models for OOB, but I don't implement them into the game. I did not do the infantry though.

Vehicle, aircraft, ship and arty/AA models I did don't have these octagons - they have a rather simply hierarchy, for example

1.Tanks or SPAT with rotating turrets

Main model (chassis) > turret (child of chassis) > barrel (child of turret), nothing else

2. SPAA with rotating turret

Main model > turret > breech > barrel

This allows to elevate the breech/barrel combi to have the gun up or down, for switch units

3. SPAT/SPAA no rotating turrets, towed AT, no switch option

Main model > barrel

4. SpArty/Towed Arty/AA

Main model > breech > barrel (again for gun elevation and possibly switch)


IIRC one of the older threads on models says the names like "turret", "breech", "barrel" are conventions for use by unity, so it's imperative to use them.

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Re: 3DS MAX??

Post by GabeKnight » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:24 pm

bebro wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:46 pm
Dunno if I understand the issue. I made most (not all) of the unit models for OOB, but I don't implement them into the game. I did not do the infantry though.

Vehicle, aircraft, ship and arty/AA models I did don't have these octagons - they have a rather simply hierarchy, for example
Thanks for answering, and please note that you're a professional talking to a pure amateur, so please bear with me on this. So far I understand the hierarchy and naming conventions needed for the different parts of the model to work, e.g. "barrel" or "turret". Take the provided churchill model as example:

churchill1.jpg
no problems with this
churchill1.jpg (171.99 KiB) Viewed 1256 times

What I meant (and probably just messed up the wording) is this:
adherbal wrote: Models named "wX", with X being a number are "weapon points" and can be used in effectSequences.txt to connect with firing effects
Models named "dX", with X being a number are "damage points" and will generate fire and smoke when the unit is turned into a wreck
(taken from the official "Guide: Adding new 3D units" thread)

churchill2.jpg
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And I understand what's represented by it. I really just need to know an easy technique in MAX to add those "w0", "w1", "d0", etc. points (=small octahedron models) to new models that doesn't have them. The way I do it right now is to take them from the "churchill example model" and copy them to the new model and move them manually until they are on the right spot. Seems a bit complicated to me, that's all, and I wanted some help in doing things easier.

Sure, I could watch hours and hours of youtube videos until I found the right one, but I gathered, for someone who does this for a living it should be an answer in 5 mins...
Thanks.

Admiral_Horthy
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Re: 3DS MAX??

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:20 am

The "Dummy objects" provide pivot points (more precisely the center coordinate) for the weapon effects. At least what seems to be logical for me from previous modding experience

Answering the question, just copy the items from Churchill, set the hierarchy and center them (and pivots!) to the parent object.

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Re: 3DS MAX??

Post by GabeKnight » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:30 pm

Admiral_Horthy wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:20 am
The "Dummy objects" provide pivot points (more precisely the center coordinate) for the weapon effects. At least what seems to be logical for me from previous modding experience

Answering the question, just copy the items from Churchill, set the hierarchy and center them (and pivots!) to the parent object.
To people using that program my questions must seem kinda like "how do I decompress a ZIP file" :wink:
Well, I'm not used to modeling software and just go along with learning by doing. Sorry about that, I'm a newbie. :oops:

Okay, so "Clone and Align" seems to work okay. I was actually hoping for a way to somehow transform the helpers to geometry objects, but doesn't matter, this way works, too. Thanks, Admiral! 8)

Admiral_Horthy
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Re: 3DS MAX??

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:50 pm

Now I managed to put my heli into the game, but still have serious issues.

Well, the propellor does not work - as it is not at object type but an effect it seems, or lack additional parameters... Well I can live with a stationary tail rotor... but

the radar animation is also buggy for me.... I tried Churchill... it works fine. As soon as I try to add an additional radar object... or set the turret to be a radar to spin, the radar anim turns into a mess. It does not rotate on the Z axis (vertical) but spins in an angle around it's pivot... Reset transform and other voodoo magic does not help. I wasted all day , pulling out the remaining hair from my bald skull..

Again is my MAX too obsolete, or am I missing a parameter to set??

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Re: 3DS MAX??

Post by Andre73 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:15 pm

I sended you a PM with an tutorial !

GabeKnight
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Re: 3DS MAX??

Post by GabeKnight » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:45 pm

Admiral_Horthy wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:50 pm
the radar animation is also buggy for me.... I tried Churchill... it works fine. As soon as I try to add an additional radar object... or set the turret to be a radar to spin,
Cool idea. Replaced the turret with the radar of the Churchill. Funny...but nonetheless cool... maybe I'll keep the new unit as some "Radar Recon Rangers"... :lol:

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