Thoughts on Infantry Support

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Thoughts on Infantry Support

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:54 am

Hi there...

I decided to bring this up here to discuss this matter with you people - more opinions and ideas the better. My concerns is with infantry support and switchable units..

It has many aspects let me list them:

1# We have unit classes Tank, Anti-tank, Artillery, Anti-air etc. They can be upgraded only in their own class - or in their switchable other class. The problem comes when the given unit series (eg. StuG) continues in a class which I cannot switch to so upgrade is not possible. Some are now being classified as Tank - presumably to avoid defensive fire on tanks. This causes some inconvenience with upgrading, fighting and traits/abilities understanding
2# AT units provide AT cover (support fire) on tanks from behind - defence only. ART units "support" with ranged fire in actual turn but often only in the next turn because of the need of switching or movement.
3# Certain units are for infantry support not for maneuver, armored assault or breakthrough (tanks' main task). These can be assault guns, slow going infantry tanks (even if only MG armed old ones), some of these are effective vs tanks (or ONLY vs tanks due to high velocity gun), some can only fight vs infantry/fortifications effectively having no AP ammo or too low velocity shells.
4# Some stock units, eg StuG are now being classified as Tank - presumably to avoid defensive fire on tanks. This causes some inconvenience with upgrading, fighting and traits/abilities understanding.
5# Support fire from ranged artillery has been debated before and now omitted.

What I am saying here is that support units should support - thus doing their intended task.. my own thoughts on these points are the following
1# Upgrading should be either class independent or class restriction could be overridden by the series entry. While triple-class units are possible I think they can over complicate things.
2# Infantry support is limited to AT fire, but there is no close support against infantry. Close range support units inf-guns, assault guns, mortars, artillery in direct fire (basically the "AT mode") should be supporting adjacent infantry the same way AT guns do. Support is support, gunfire is gunfire. Most of these weapons are multi purpose there is no reason to have support fire against tanks only - at least that's my logic saying
3#Direct fire against tanks is suppressive even if only HE shells are being fired. Support guns would fire anyway if they could. Actually this can be simulated easily by just having Artillery as AT guns defensively - their performance is limited by their artillery/bombard type attack against mechanical defense. I don't know whether their shock value is used and whether it lowers efficiency in direct fire mode. But anyway they should react on all types of attackers.
4#StuG is definitely not a tank but support vehicle. If Pz IV can fight other tanks, StuG can since they share the same gun and ammo
5#Generally I agree with that regarding multi hex distances

All in all, one of the solutions can be to have the switching feature between direct and indirect fire (or AA) instead, and have then fire, support whatever they can handle by their attack values and types. Direct fire type guns provide defensive fire, indirect use ranged attack. I guess it is simple. How to realize this... either give it a class feature like "supportART" in classes, but a trait like "Infantry support" or "Close support" would be best to have I think. It would give more meaning to short ranged small artillery, infantry-tanks, assault guns. A switch here would make the decision support defense during the opponent's turn or to support attack with ranged fire in actual turn.

Some examples may help to understand what I mean..
- 75mm infantry gun (Range 2, Move 2, quick deployment) - since it has only 2 range, no switch is necessary, it can fire ranged at 2 over the head of infantry, even after move.
If will shoot defensive fire on attacking infantry and on tanks, but the result will be only suppression (efficiency loss)
- 76.2mm ZiS-3 (Range 5, AT mode) - It's a long range piece, so support fire will be available in "Direct fire" (AT mode) only, since it's a dual purpose gun, it will be effective in AT role as well.
- StuG IIIB - it's an armoured inf-gun, range 2, with limited AT capabilities
- Pz IVC/D/E - Anti-infantry tank with the same gun of StuG.
- 40mm Bofors AA - In "AT mode" (direct fire mode) could provide covering fire. Some nations have AP ammo for this, providing stronger AT preformance.
- 88mm FlaK18/36 - A well known case of dual-purpose. Reality was something different. The 88 was either AA or a field gun due to directors and sighting instrumentation. If
we look on it as a field gun it is dual a purpose AT and light artillery piece, similarly to the ZiS-3.

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Re: Thoughts on Infantry Support

Post by cutydt02 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:39 am

So, you want more usefull switch in game ? And work as AT class but with more targets ?
Good ideal for oob-2. Because that big update will change all game play we know, the game may be too easy or too hard sometimes

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Re: Thoughts on Infantry Support

Post by terminator » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:11 am

Switching units are particulary interesting for "minor" nations that do not have many units.

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