about submarine war

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cutydt02
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about submarine war

Post by cutydt02 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:21 pm

im new to sea battles and feel hard to use submarines bros. I tottaly dont know how they work, how they survive and how to play at all. And sadly, 1 scenario in kriegmarine just plays by submarines, the escort ships just tear my ships apart..... thank for your help, bros

GabeKnight
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Re: about submarine war

Post by GabeKnight » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:43 pm

You can try watching some replays to see how others do it.

Khitomer
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Re: about submarine war

Post by Khitomer » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:38 am

Some basic facts, hopefully it will help you a bit:

While the submarine is surfaced:
- it can be detected if a ship moves into one of the adjacent hexes,
- it moves faster.

While it is submerged:
- it can attack without revealing its position,
- it can be detected by the destroyer sonar pulse ability (range of 2 hexes) ; in that case only the destroyer that detected it can attack it,
- the sub can also be detected if a ship tries to move into its exact position,
- it moves slower ; it can move further away (to an hex with a white drawing on it) but then it will emerge,
- it can stay submerged for a few turns (check the small number next to strength indicator) then it has to emerge to recharge its batteries (it takes a few turns to fully recharge them),
- it can't move across shallow water.
Last edited by Khitomer on Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Admiral_Horthy
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Re: about submarine war

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:28 pm

I had a strange finding when I tested subs.... actually I KNEW that there was a sub nearby, because I did put it there. Sonar ping did not reveal it. Is it possible sonar cannot pick a sub that did not move??

Also what about radars? I was found by destroyers several times, while they should not know where am i. Do they spot surfaced subs with radars? Or it is the all seeing AI bug here again?

GabeKnight
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Re: about submarine war

Post by GabeKnight » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:16 pm

Khitomer wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:38 am
Some basic facts, hopefully it will help you a bit:

While the submarine is surfaced:
- it can be detected if a ship or aircraft moves into the one of the adjacent hexes.
Although stated as such in the manual, airplanes can not detect surfaced submarines
Admiral_Horthy wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:28 pm
I had a strange finding when I tested subs.... actually I KNEW that there was a sub nearby, because I did put it there. Sonar ping did not reveal it. Is it possible sonar cannot pick a sub that did not move??
Yep.
Admiral_Horthy wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:28 pm
Also what about radars? I was found by destroyers several times, while they should not know where am i. Do they spot surfaced subs with radars? Or it is the all seeing AI bug here again?
Shouldn't, but this observation was posted by someone else previously, describing the same situation as you.
I never noticed it like that, but to be honest, I try to avoid using subs. Waste of naval-CP if you ask me.

cutydt02
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Re: about submarine war

Post by cutydt02 » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:48 pm

Thank bro. So its complicated to use subs. But i still have no ideas how to use them, their guns are so weak and vulnerable while surfaced and their torpedos in sonar range and have long cooldown. Oh well some submarines of enemy can cause some troubles but as gabe said, i still see no reason to use them. Donitz must be genius

Halvralf
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Re: about submarine war

Post by Halvralf » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:57 pm

cutydt02 wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:48 pm
Thank bro. So its complicated to use subs. But i still have no ideas how to use them, their guns are so weak and vulnerable while surfaced and their torpedos in sonar range and have long cooldown. Oh well some submarines of enemy can cause some troubles but as gabe said, i still see no reason to use them. Donitz must be genius
Try to use the torpedoes all time , even when surfaced. Set up a rotation with the subs ( I assume you are playing Kriegsmarine?) Use the bomber to take out ships, don bother about losses or running out of fuel with the bomber as it's a one time performance.
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."

cutydt02
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Re: about submarine war

Post by cutydt02 » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:00 pm

Its great, i never think about rotation bro. I just hit and run like tom & jerry with bad ending....

Khitomer
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Re: about submarine war

Post by Khitomer » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:28 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:16 pm
Khitomer wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:38 am
While the submarine is surfaced:
- it can be detected if a ship or aircraft moves into the one of the adjacent hexes.
Although stated as such in the manual, airplanes can not detect surfaced submarines
Good to know, thanks, I have edited my post.

Admiral_Horthy
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Re: about submarine war

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:27 pm

Best creating a scenario and test the units. Best is if you have two computers and play hot-seat against yourself, so you can see both.

Erik2
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Re: about submarine war

Post by Erik2 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:47 am

GabeKnight wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:16 pm

Although stated as such in the manual, airplanes can not detect surfaced submarines
Is this true of recon air units as well?
If yes, it is not historically correct AFAIK. Sub spotting/hunting was one of the tasks given to air recon.

Horst
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Re: about submarine war

Post by Horst » Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:34 am

Only land and naval units can spot surfaced subs when adjacent to them. Must be tied to the undetectable trait that all air-units are left out.
If you replace this trait with the camouflaged trait, you can detect submerged subs by radar from far away - not the perfect solution either.
Poor subs had always bad cards in OoB, so let's allow them some sneakiness. I only wish they could recharge their batteries in a single turn. The constant up and down in the heat of sea battles is annoying.

Admiral_Horthy
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Re: about submarine war

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:11 am

Of course it would be a serious game unbalancing feature, but I think torpedoes are all or nothing weapons. If they hit - almost always a kill, unless of course a capital class ship.. How about giving it a high risk type damage?

Horst
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Re: about submarine war

Post by Horst » Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:50 pm

One thing I did is to reduce the cooldown of torpedoes of naval units. My subs have usually 2 turns CD, so you don't have too wait that long until you can fire again.
The typical problem is that AI ships are too often on the move, therefore you have trouble getting good damage on them. I recommend to dive around the flanks of enemy destroyers and hit the capital ships behind when they stopped for a turn to engage your surface vessels. It just requires some patience.

CoolDTA
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Re: about submarine war

Post by CoolDTA » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:44 pm

One of the most deadly units is a sub: the Japanese suicide sub (Downfall scen). It can even one-shot units which is rare in OoB. But yeah, otherwise subs are imo too weak in the game.

cutydt02
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Re: about submarine war

Post by cutydt02 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:40 pm

Well, about much more advanced torpedo of japanese with 4 (or 3? Just met them from us campaign). Its easier to use sub right ? Sub’s los is problem too, it makes them work like a pack even behind enemy destroyers to scout

hrafnkolbrandr
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Re: about submarine war

Post by hrafnkolbrandr » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:04 am

Hit and run with torpedoes. You want to plan your attack so that you can shadow convoys from ahead of where they are travelling.

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