Endsieg

Order of Battle is a series of operational WW2 games starting with the Pacific War and then on to Europe!

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Andy2012
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Re: Endsieg

Post by Andy2012 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:26 am

Easy there, all. Last thing I read is that the patch is currently queued up in Slitherine's production pipeline. There are, apparently, a multitude of bottlenecks this has to pass through. OoB is a very large program with a ton of DLCs and moving one part around affects others; all of this is done by a small team supplying a niche market. (I think I wrote all of this several times already, but it is the messy, unsatisfying truth.) After all, this is just a game and we are all adults.

GabeKnight
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Re: Endsieg

Post by GabeKnight » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:02 am

I'm biased in this case also, because up until the first week of February or so I had a full working beta version at my disposal. As said, most/many problems were solved in there. And after the beta's ended I copied the stuff to my steam version - that way, I'm no-one to complain.

But I do understand the others. And BTW, those patch announcements happened in the beta forum, unseen by the public - most players had only the bits of information we gave them "on the side". Bebro's trying, but he's not the man in charge.

Andy2012
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Re: Endsieg

Post by Andy2012 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:43 am

GabeKnight wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:02 am
I'm biased in this case also, because up until the first week of February or so I had a full working beta version at my disposal. As said, most/many problems were solved in there. And after the beta's ended I copied the stuff to my steam version - that way, I'm no-one to complain.

But I do understand the others. And BTW, those patch announcements happened in the beta forum, unseen by the public - most players had only the bits of information we gave them "on the side". Bebro's trying, but he's not the man in charge.
Thank you for your service, testing stuff over and over again is hard.
I personally dont see a point in issueing statements here when there is still work being done and it is a patch, not a new DLC. Nothing exciting, actually. (But necessary nevertheless.)

terminator
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Re: Endsieg

Post by terminator » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:46 pm

Be lacking official communication...

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kverdon
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Re: Endsieg

Post by kverdon » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:51 am

Andy you are correct, to a degree, in that fixing the bugs in the program is rather complicated by the number of DLCs. However Bru makes a bigger point that the recent DLC, that is loaded with game killing bugs COULD have been easily fixed by a DLC patch months ago, yet for some strange reason, not only does Slitherine not release a patch for to fix the bugs in the DLC, the continue to offer it for sale. This is a very dishonest business practice. It may be only a game but they are not giving it away for free and continue to unashamedly offer for sale a knowingly defective product. Can someone rationalize that one?

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Re: Endsieg

Post by GabeKnight » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:43 am

kverdon wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:51 am
It may be only a game but they are not giving it away for free and continue to unashamedly offer for sale a knowingly defective product. Can someone rationalize that one?
Never wondered why you're obliged to accept a "licence" (EULA) every time you install new software? Ever cared to read it? :wink:
Try chapter 5.1... :lol:

PoorOldSpike
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Re: Endsieg

Post by PoorOldSpike » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:56 am

I've been computer wargaming for almost 40 years and in all that time have never come across any game that's 100% bug/glitch free, it's something we have to live with just as a hound dawg has to put up with a few fleas crawling around on its back...:)
The dilemma for all developers is whether to release a game that still has some bugs in it, or delay the release for another few months trying to zap those bugs.
For example in March 2017 the Panzer Corps devs announced in a thread here that they were working on a Panzer Corps 2, but now 23 months later it still hasn't been released and people are asking "what the hell's going on?"..
So my advice to all devs is to forget the 100% bug-free approach and GET THE GAMES OUT THERE in our grubby sticky hands, bugs and all, then bring out patches further down the line to keep zapping the bugs.
Same goes for OOB, we can live with a few bugs/glitches til they're fixed, just as we can live with a beautiful woman even if she's not 100% perfect....:)

Andy2012
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Re: Endsieg

Post by Andy2012 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:01 am

@kverdon: Removing a product from online shops like Steam is probably rather detrimental to future sales and costs manpower better spent elsewhere. I think this is very rational.
@PoorOldSpike: You are probably right about the bugs. But as far as I read it, Slitherine has a production schedule and OoB is there wedged between other products. This applies to patches, too. 'Get the patches out there' isnt that easy and rather unsystematic, creating other problems along the way with the complexity of the current product. (This was an option when the game was young and had two DLCs, maybe. I remember hotfixes.) So there is no easy solution for this, any quick and dirty duct tape fix just creates more problems down the road.

kondi754
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Re: Endsieg

Post by kondi754 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:09 am

Andy2012 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:01 am
@kverdon: Removing a product from online shops like Steam is probably rather detrimental to future sales and costs manpower better spent elsewhere. I think this is very rational.
@PoorOldSpike: You are probably right about the bugs. But as far as I read it, Slitherine has a production schedule and OoB is there wedged between other products. This applies to patches, too. 'Get the patches out there' isnt that easy and rather unsystematic, creating other problems along the way with the complexity of the current product. (This was an option when the game was young and had two DLCs, maybe. I remember hotfixes.) So there is no easy solution for this, any quick and dirty duct tape fix just creates more problems down the road.
Andy, you should become a spokesman for Slitherine :wink: :idea:

Andy2012
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Re: Endsieg

Post by Andy2012 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:20 am

@kondi: I'll take offers, but I doubt they can afford me. 8)
(And I can mostly relate to Slitherine's problems without any background in software development since my clients usually dont appreciate how difficult things are behind the scenes as well.)

PoorOldSpike
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Re: Endsieg

Post by PoorOldSpike » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:53 pm

In the 1980's when I was a paid developer for CCS we used to churn out games in less than six weeks from conception to the stores (below); the programmer would send me the game and I'd put in 12 hours a day thoroughly testing it, then send him a list of recommendations and bugs, and got a reputation in the industry as a "Bugfinder General'.
He'd then act on my report and send me a new version and I'd do the same with that, until after about half-a-dozen refining cycles we'd judge it ready to hit the shelves.
However since then, the computer wargaming industry has become far bigger and clunky and complicated.
Incidentally I've offered my services for free as a playtester to various companies who are working on games, but only get a polite "thanks but no thanks".
I must be unloveable (sniffle)

Image

bru888
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Re: Endsieg

Post by bru888 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:09 pm

terminator wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:46 pm
Be lacking official communication...
In all of this, all of this, this is the key.
- Bru

Andy2012
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Re: Endsieg

Post by Andy2012 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:40 pm

PoorOldSpike wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:53 pm

Incidentally I've offered my services for free as a playtester to various companies who are working on games, but only get a polite "thanks but no thanks".
I must be unloveable (sniffle)
There is always the next betatest around here. Just scan the forums and apply. :D

GabeKnight
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Re: Endsieg

Post by GabeKnight » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:54 am

bru888 wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:04 pm
[...] just fix these two things [...]
And? Those working alright now? I don't use the editor enough to check myself. And besides being super funny to be found out, I would have never noticed the missing 31th day thingy myself.
But I kind of would like to know if the two things have been fixed with the patch...just for my information...and for context...you know...for later...

bru888
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Re: Endsieg

Post by bru888 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:30 am

GabeKnight wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:54 am
bru888 wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:04 pm
[...] just fix these two things [...]
And? Those working alright now? I don't use the editor enough to check myself. And besides being super funny to be found out, I would have never noticed the missing 31th day thingy myself.
But I kind of would like to know if the two things have been fixed with the patch...just for my information...and for context...you know...for later...
The Unlock Commander flag mismatch is fixed. The bad date issue seems to be partially fixed in that the scenario editor overrides a bad date in the Settings tab but one can still enter a nonsensical date for a Check Date condition.

That thing you are talking with Halvralf about in the patch thread - Waffen SS doubled CPs and RPs - I will not ask you to explain that here, but just a general question: Is that something we can edit a .txt or .csv file to fix ourselves? I'm not looking for the fix itself; I just want to know whether, when the time comes, I can fix it or is it hard-coded?
- Bru

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Re: Endsieg

Post by GabeKnight » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:22 am

bru888 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:30 am
That thing you are talking with Halvralf about in the patch thread - Waffen SS doubled CPs and RPs - I will not ask you to explain that here, but just a general question: Is that something we can edit a .txt or .csv file to fix ourselves? I'm not looking for the fix itself; I just want to know whether, when the time comes, I can fix it or is it hard-coded?
I don't have any fancy explanation either, other than it's probably some error in the code. Happens if you import a core that has the Waffen-SS spec unlocked.
And I don't think there's anything you can do to fix this yourself (other than playing without core-import or use the DAK-core for Endsieg) - sorry. But, actually I don't even know if that error continues in the second scen, or if it's just a one-time thing.

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Re: Endsieg

Post by Halvralf » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:42 am

GabeKnight wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:22 am
bru888 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:30 am
That thing you are talking with Halvralf about in the patch thread - Waffen SS doubled CPs and RPs - I will not ask you to explain that here, but just a general question: Is that something we can edit a .txt or .csv file to fix ourselves? I'm not looking for the fix itself; I just want to know whether, when the time comes, I can fix it or is it hard-coded?
I don't have any fancy explanation either, other than it's probably some error in the code. Happens if you import a core that has the Waffen-SS spec unlocked.
And I don't think there's anything you can do to fix this yourself (other than playing without core-import or use the DAK-core for Endsieg) - sorry. But, actually I don't even know if that error continues in the second scen, or if it's just a one-time thing.
I can confirm that it continues to scenario 2. I finished my test and continued to next scenario and still had 28! cp's for Waffen SS.
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."

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Re: Endsieg

Post by GabeKnight » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:25 pm

Halvralf, Halvralf, did I see Lt. Lena unlocked in your imported Panzerkrieg core? Really now.... :wink:

(On a personal note, I would've picked Ms. Kasyanova :shock: :P )

Halvralf
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Re: Endsieg

Post by Halvralf » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:55 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:25 pm
Halvralf, Halvralf, did I see Lt. Lena unlocked in your imported Panzerkrieg core? Really now.... :wink:

(On a personal note, I would've picked Ms. Kasyanova :shock: :P )
:oops: :oops: Hehe yea, as you probably remember I lost my cores when my SSD died so while waiting for the patch and playing the Beta I ran PK to get a new core and I did some small cheating to make it go faster :wink: :wink:
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."

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Re: Endsieg

Post by terminator » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:27 am

PoorOldSpike wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:53 pm
In the 1980's when I was a paid developer for CCS we used to churn out games in less than six weeks from conception to the stores (below); the programmer would send me the game and I'd put in 12 hours a day thoroughly testing it, then send him a list of recommendations and bugs, and got a reputation in the industry as a "Bugfinder General'.
He'd then act on my report and send me a new version and I'd do the same with that, until after about half-a-dozen refining cycles we'd judge it ready to hit the shelves.
However since then, the computer wargaming industry has become far bigger and clunky and complicated.
Incidentally I've offered my services for free as a playtester to various companies who are working on games, but only get a polite "thanks but no thanks".
I must be unloveable (sniffle)
Zx Spectrum was my first personal computer when I was young. I learned how to program Basic and then Machine Code on this little machine :

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Only good memories (Manic Miner,Atic Atac...).
I’ve never heard of these strategy games. I don’t know if they’ve crossed the Channel.

It is always possible to play these strategic games with an emulator :D

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