Endsieg

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PoorOldSpike
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Re: Endsieg

Post by PoorOldSpike » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:15 am

terminator wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:27 am
Zx Spectrum was my first personal computer when I was young. I learned how to program Basic and then Machine Code on this little machine :
Ah, sweet nostalgia, when wargames were crisp and clear and uncomplicated..:)

kverdon
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Re: Endsieg

Post by kverdon » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:46 am

So Andy, I find your rational intruding. It seems it is fine to defraud customers by continuing to sell a knowingly defective product since to do the correct and ethical approach to suspend sales until the issue is resolved will detract from the fix? What about ethics and accountability? They don’t seem to have a bearing in this argument?

There are 2 recurring excuses for the deficiencies of OOB releases.

1. The Developement Team is too small and has limited resources. Ok, fine either add resources or increase developement time to accommodate that reality. How is it ethical to pass the deficiencies of this on to the purchaser?

2. There was insuffient time to test the projuct. Proper project planning and management is part of running a successful buisness. It has clearly been lacking. If you consistently fall short of time in executing a project you either need to expand the resources or time allotted and adjust the cost appropriately. Just saying “we knew it was not finished but had to ship it anyways is NOT acceptable. Either the developer who failed to deliver in an arranged schedule OR the person(s) responsible for setting the schedule need to be held accountable. NOT the purchasers of the product.

Andy2012
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Re: Endsieg

Post by Andy2012 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:50 pm

kverdon wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:46 am
So Andy, I find your rational intruding. It seems it is fine to defraud customers by continuing to sell a knowingly defective product since to do the correct and ethical approach to suspend sales until the issue is resolved will detract from the fix? What about ethics and accountability? They don’t seem to have a bearing in this argument?

There are 2 recurring excuses for the deficiencies of OOB releases.

1. The Developement Team is too small and has limited resources. Ok, fine either add resources or increase developement time to accommodate that reality. How is it ethical to pass the deficiencies of this on to the purchaser?

2. There was insuffient time to test the projuct. Proper project planning and management is part of running a successful buisness. It has clearly been lacking. If you consistently fall short of time in executing a project you either need to expand the resources or time allotted and adjust the cost appropriately. Just saying “we knew it was not finished but had to ship it anyways is NOT acceptable. Either the developer who failed to deliver in an arranged schedule OR the person(s) responsible for setting the schedule need to be held accountable. NOT the purchasers of the product.
Nobody holds you accountable for anything around here. Do as you wish, leave, stay, whatever. But I find your accusations of fraud and defective product pretty strong and not grounded in reality.

kverdon
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Re: Endsieg

Post by kverdon » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:52 pm

I fail to see How can it be said that Endsieg is not a defective product? There are serious errors in the scenarios that make them unplayable if you do not know how to fix them.

Continuing to sell, without a disclaimer, a product that you know to be defective is at the very least dishonest, could be considered as a form of fraud.

Had Slitherine simply issued an patch when these issues became apparent 3 months ago. We would not be having this discussion.

bebro
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Re: Endsieg

Post by bebro » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:01 pm

kverdon wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:52 pm
I fail to see How can it be said that Endsieg is not a defective product? There are serious errors in the scenarios that make them unplayable if you do not know how to fix them.
Bugs or not, given that ppl can both play and win the campaign (and could do so before the recent patch already) your statement is obviously false.
Continuing to sell, without a disclaimer, a product that you know to be defective is at the very least dishonest, could be considered as a form of fraud.
I reject that, as explained above.

kverdon
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Re: Endsieg

Post by kverdon » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:09 pm

Ok, I surrender. That attitude certainly explains why this situation exists. Thank you for clarifying it for me. You can safely say you’ve seen the last dime from me for anything published by Slitherine. It had been an educational experience. One I will happily share with others.

PoorOldSpike
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Re: Endsieg

Post by PoorOldSpike » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:35 pm

This thread has run to 3 pages, so to help the OOB devs maybe we could make a list of exactly which alleged bugs/glitches need zapping as I'm losing track myself?
After all, some might not even be bugs at all, and others might only pertain to particular scenarios, and maybe some can be worked around by using house rules or whatever? Or are we talking about Campaign play?
So if anybody cares to list any specific bugs/glitches in particular scenarios I'd be happy to analyse them and see if they can be overcome.

Halvralf
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Re: Endsieg

Post by Halvralf » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:09 pm

PoorOldSpike wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:35 pm
This thread has run to 3 pages, so to help the OOB devs maybe we could make a list of exactly which alleged bugs/glitches need zapping as I'm losing track myself?
After all, some might not even be bugs at all, and others might only pertain to particular scenarios, and maybe some can be worked around by using house rules or whatever? Or are we talking about Campaign play?
So if anybody cares to list any specific bugs/glitches in particular scenarios I'd be happy to analyse them and see if they can be overcome.
If you venture to tech Support page you will find http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=541 where we are supposed to apply bugs.
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."

bru888
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Re: Endsieg

Post by bru888 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:12 pm

Spike, as Halvralf says, there usually is a running thread in Tech Support titled "Current Bugs" followed by the version number. I see some special character issues in there but the only significant bug that I have seen so far with 7.16, and which is not mentioned in that thread but is elsewhere, is the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS sharing specialisations. This may be by design but it has the undesirable effect of doubling CPs and RPs if one imports core Waffen SS units into a campaign. As Gabe puts it, "this only happens if there are Waffen-SS units present in the imported core (or maybe owning the spec is enough). Does not happen with a DAK core if you buy the Waffen-SS spec later, for example."
- Bru

GabeKnight
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Re: Endsieg

Post by GabeKnight » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:33 pm

But this bug actually shouldn't matter to POS, as this does not concern single scen play in any way :wink:

terminator
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Re: Endsieg

Post by terminator » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:55 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:33 pm
But this bug actually shouldn't matter to POS, as this does not concern single scen play in any way :wink:
Has anyone tried to play the scenarios from Endsieg in single player mode especially the latter :?:
The problem is that in the single player scenarios the specializations of the campaign are not available :!:
I asked the question during the Beta... :roll:

PoorOldSpike
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Re: Endsieg

Post by PoorOldSpike » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:03 pm

Well muchachos, I downloaded 7.1.6 today and will let you know if I find any glitches and stuff.
HOWEVER, please bear in mind that I don't play Campaigns, I only play individual vanilla OOB scenarios.
I don't use any mods or specialisations, or do any file-tweaking of any kind.
(No offence to Campaigns, but I find them too big and long and slow; I'm 70 years old so there's a possibility I'll be dead long before I can finish them)
Call me suspicious, but maybe bugs and glitches are attracted to mods/specs/tweaks in an insane feeding frenzy?
If that's the case, what sage words of wisdom can you offer non-vanilla players grasshopper?-

Image

GabeKnight
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Re: Endsieg

Post by GabeKnight » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:08 pm

terminator wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:55 pm
Has anyone tried to play the scenarios from Endsieg in single player mode especially the latter :?:
The problem is that in the single player scenarios the specializations of the campaign are not available :!:
I asked the question during the Beta... :roll:
It's quite hard actually. Just played the second scen and without the WSS CP and income and without specs and commanders...even more brutal as on level 5 difficulty. :D
(If you want to achieve all secondaries, that is)

terminator
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Re: Endsieg

Post by terminator » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:28 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:08 pm
terminator wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:55 pm
Has anyone tried to play the scenarios from Endsieg in single player mode especially the latter :?:
The problem is that in the single player scenarios the specializations of the campaign are not available :!:
I asked the question during the Beta... :roll:
It's quite hard actually. Just played the second scen and without the WSS CP and income and without specs and commanders...even more brutal as on level 5 difficulty. :D
(If you want to achieve all secondaries, that is)
To compensate for the absence of the WaffenSS faction specialization, Germany faction should have more CP and RP playing the scenarios out of the campaign, especially for the last scenarios :idea:

GabeKnight
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Re: Endsieg

Post by GabeKnight » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:48 pm

terminator wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:28 pm
To compensate for the absence of the WaffenSS faction, Germany faction should have more CP and RP playing the scenarios out of the campaign, especially for the last scenarios :idea:
At the moment, you could adjust the starting RPs for the player - that should be possible. Don't know if there's a trigger in the editor for "out of the campaign" for CPs, income and such. :wink:

But I think it would be a good idea for future OoB versions if one could choose some of the parameters from the campaign that are missing in single scen play. Like starting RPs, turn income or even CP distribution; and allowing the player to select the specs, commanders and CV-rewards that would usually be available in campaign mode for that specific scen.

terminator
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Re: Endsieg

Post by terminator » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:34 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:48 pm
terminator wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:28 pm
To compensate for the absence of the WaffenSS faction, Germany faction should have more CP and RP playing the scenarios out of the campaign, especially for the last scenarios :idea:
At the moment, you could adjust the starting RPs for the player - that should be possible. Don't know if there's a trigger in the editor for "out of the campaign" for CPs, income and such. :wink:
I think that it is not very difficult.

Look at the trigger "RP Transfer" -> Check Specialization WaffenSS : Unlocked = Campaign, NOT Unlocked = Scenario "out of the campaign".

I made an example with the scenario Ardennes :

1. The Original Trigger "RP Transfer" :

Ardennes(1).jpg
Ardennes(1).jpg (256.23 KiB) Viewed 877 times

2. New Trigger "RP Transfer" modified :

Ardennes(2).jpg
Ardennes(2).jpg (258.37 KiB) Viewed 877 times

3. The test in scenario mode "out of the campaign" :

Ardennes(3).jpg
Ardennes(3).jpg (784.27 KiB) Viewed 877 times

terminator
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Re: Endsieg

Post by terminator » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:13 am

The Unlocked box is NOT functional for check specialization :!:
It is useless :cry:
Box marked or not marked give the same result...

GabeKnight
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Re: Endsieg

Post by GabeKnight » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:31 am

terminator wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:34 pm
I think that it is not very difficult.

Look at the trigger "RP Transfer" -> Check Specialization WaffenSS : Unlocked = Campaign, NOT Unlocked = Scenario "out of the campaign".
You're right, didn't think of that. Sure, sounds good to me as an alternative: Check if WSS spec is present and if not, add some CP and/or RP.

Still, I'd like to select me some specs when starting a single scen campaign. That would be nice.

Wait now, didn't see that post:
terminator wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:13 am
The Unlocked box is NOT functional for check specialization :!:
It is useless :cry:
Box marked or not marked give the same result...
So not working as expected...? :?

terminator
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Re: Endsieg

Post by terminator » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:42 am

GabeKnight wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:31 am
terminator wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:34 pm
I think that it is not very difficult.

Look at the trigger "RP Transfer" -> Check Specialization WaffenSS : Unlocked = Campaign, NOT Unlocked = Scenario "out of the campaign".
You're right, didn't think of that. Sure, sounds good to me as an alternative: Check if WSS spec is present and if not, add some CP and/or RP.

Still, I'd like to select me some specs when starting a single scen campaign. That would be nice.

Wait now, didn't see that post:
terminator wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:13 am
The Unlocked box is NOT functional for check specialization :!:
It is useless :cry:
Box marked or not marked give the same result...
So not working as expected...? :?
I need to do some more test, it looks like it is working finally but maybe not perfectly.

EDIT: The good solution :arrow: viewtopic.php?f=374&t=82935&p=772045#p772045

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