'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Order of Battle is a series of operational WW2 games starting with the Pacific War and then on to Europe!

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CoolDTA
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by CoolDTA » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:48 am

PoorOldSpike wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:39 pm
AARGH after winning my first 4 Red Star standalone scens back to back I've just lost the 5th at the hands of the Finns in Viipuri (1940) (sniffle)..
That's an impressive number of tanks you have there, Spike! And a fleet of 9 x T-34's at Smolensk. :shock: Thanks for the reports and keep them coming. :)
Erik2 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:35 am
I found the difficulty levels suitable and I'm not the world's greatest OOB player.
I agree - the diff level is spot on (have played the first three scens thus far).

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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:01 pm

Alright, should have posted earlier (dont you guys have any sun, beaches and holidays?), but here we are.
I bought a few extra infantry, 2 fighters and upgraded one arty from light to medium (see deployment).
Holding the Japanese at bay is pretty straightforward if you keep a few OoB rules in mind:
1. Rotate shellshocked units to the rear.
2. Use rivers as a natural defense.
3. Deploy around AT in a star-shaped pattern so that it can support all near units. Especially important in the middle, where your orange allies are.
4. Use shock units for assaults. Dont just rely on arty, use the flame tanks and heavy bombers, too. Notice that my two tank units are flame tanks. All others are aux.
5. For now, use regular replacements only to save money. This is still a rookie force.

More specifically, reinforce the middle AI with some inf and AT on the eastern side of the river. Hold and push back in the north. The southern bridge is very weakly defended; defeat the Japanese there and then drive your forces north to support the middle. Keep in mind, your job is to hold and push back, nothing more. The only armoured attack is in the middle, have AT ready.
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by bru888 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:58 pm

Khalkin Gol - Zhukov's Strike

I'm into fair and objective reporting; i.e., I'm not going to just post my victories. This time I took it on the chin even though I was so close to taking Nomonhan:

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It being that close, though, means this scenario is yet again nicely balanced. I'm going to back at it with these lessons in mind:
1) Don't squander resource points on elite reinforcements; not in this scenario in any case.
2) Save the last successful campaign interlude! I see that this designer means business; anything less than victory means campaign defeat. :wink:
- Bru

PoorOldSpike
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by PoorOldSpike » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:05 pm

Andy2012 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:01 pm
Alright, should have posted earlier (dont you guys have any sun, beaches and holidays?), but here we are....

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What are these things called "sun, beaches and holidays?"..;)
BTW I presume your screenshots are Khalkin-Gol (Jap attack) and that you won.

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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by PoorOldSpike » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:42 am

Just got a win in Khalkin Gol -Zhukov, I still can't break my unspeakable habit of spending mostly on tanks and it paid off..:)
Another of my bad habits is to buy fighter planes only, no bombers, because my motto is- "If anybody's gonna have air supremacy around here, its ME!"

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My north and south pincers met at Nomonhan and then swung left into the soft backs of the pocketed japs-

Image

If anybody wants to compare their Red Star win/losses with mine, remember they're all vanilla standalone scens (not campaign), medium difficulty, first time played.
My stats are currently Played-8, Won-6, Lost- 2
Lake Khasan- Vict
Summa 39- Vict
Rostov- Vict
Khalkin Gol jap attack- Vict
Viipuri- Defeat
Smolensk- Defeat
Grodno- Vict
Khalkin Gol Zhukov- Vict

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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by cutydt02 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:08 am

its much more harder than german campaigns. Enemy always has 3 stars, plus general in every tank or fighter. This is review of russia army at normal dif:
-infantry: same as it should be. I cant promote more than 3 units to guard infantry at moscow because of lacking effective support units. Spam conscript is good ideal, for human wave.
-anti-tank gun: its much more than disaster when we must stick with damned 45mm all the game, half time in defensive stance. Enemy even makes it worse by spamming many reaper machines like pz4 or stug....
-tank: Make me want to stick with KV-2 all the game like i did in PC. T-34 cant shine because of exp, KV-1 m1940 is unreliable.... T-28 carry me to babarossa without problem but later ? only KV-2 worthy with its madness shocking
-Artillery: Decent, i must say. 122mm A-19 or 205mm is good but i still miss K18 of german
-Fighter: another disaster. Even finn fighter can 1vs3 mine easily. Later on, we have access to better machines but still far from enough to head on with bf109 or even bf110.
-Bomber: We cant rely on our fighters, so.....

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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by bebro » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:26 pm

Sounds like a good description of the situation in summer 1941 from the Red Army POV... ;)

As for tanks, KV2 are absolute beasts indeed, but if you want to use lots of those repair costs can ruin you. Though T34s plus one or two heavies are certainly ok to do the job, even in the harsher scns.

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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by bru888 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:53 pm

bru888 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:58 pm
Khalkin Gol - Zhukov's Strike

I'm into fair and objective reporting; i.e., I'm not going to just post my victories. This time I took it on the chin even though I was so close to taking Nomonhan...
Victory is even sweeter when it's a comeback! I played smarter, especially with my resources, and pulled out the win (middle difficulty).

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- Bru

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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by PoorOldSpike » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:35 pm

bebro wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:26 pm
As for tanks, KV2 are absolute beasts indeed, but if you want to use lots of those repair costs can ruin you. Though T34s plus one or two heavies are certainly ok to do the job, even in the harsher scns.
Yes, if incoming points are low we don't have enough to keep repairing a big tank fleet as I found out to my cost in Smolensk where the income was only 22 per turn and jerry wiped out ALL my T-34's and won the game. This need to watch our cash adds an extra depth to OOB gameplay.
As regards heavy KV-2's yes they're like mobile pillboxes and I buy them sometimes, but my first love is still fast T-34's because they're better than any tanks jerry has in 1941..:)

"Here, for the first time, the enemy employed his T34 tank, a tank against which our guns were largely ineffective"- Gen H.Guderian, p 162 Panzer Leader (Russ July 3rd 1941 attack against the Beresina crossing at Borissov)
"The T-34 was the most excellent example of the offensive weapon of the Second World War." - General Mellenthin.
"Their T-34 was the best in the world." - Field Marshal Kleist.


T-34 in Kharkov
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by GUNDOBALDO08 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:07 pm

I agree T34 is the best weapon of wwii. By the way, in 41-43 Soviet dlc I hope dev focus on non german axis force, hungarian, rumenian and italians had big relevance in pre and post stalingrad operation... ex: battle of Nikolajevka where italian Alpini did strong resistence in front of Soviet offensive making possible retreat of other axis divisions

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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by bru888 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:10 pm

Grodno

I will not say this one was easy. It was easier (middle difficulty) than the previous scenario and therefore like a breather. More than a battle against the Poles, it is a race against time as the supply dwindles in Lunna (nice touch). You have to move fast, encircle, and destroy because you need the supply and time flies in this one.

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- Bru

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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by PoorOldSpike » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:39 pm

Just notched up a win in Raseiniai (please don't ask me how to pronounce it)-

Image

The scen is only 15 turns long, so I threw everything at Jerry to hold him on the plentiful river lines like this one below and it worked.
By the time he'd begun to break through by about turn 10, he simply didn't have time to penetrate to the main objectives in the rear hehe.
And as usual my T-34's completely outclassed anything he had, hehe again..:)

Image

My stats are currently Played-9, Won-7, Lost- 2
(vanilla standalone scens / med difficulty)
Lake Khasan- Vict
Summa 39- Vict
Rostov- Vict
Khalkin Gol jap attack- Vict
Viipuri- Defeat
Smolensk- Defeat
Grodno- Vict
Khalkin Gol Zhukov- Vict
Raseiniai- Vict

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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by PoorOldSpike » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:42 am

Newcomers to OOB note-
Unlike campaign play, standalone scenarios allow us to buy exactly what we want, so in that respect they're ideal for newcomers to learn on, for example I've been buying loads of T-34's even though historically they weren't available in some early time periods or in certain regions.
So when I play the scens in the future I'm going to make them more challenging by restricting myself to what I can buy historically.
I already do that in other DLC's, usually by rolling a dice for each purchase so that I never know what the dice is going to give me, and have the challenge of having to make do with whatever I get. The dice is therefore like High Command, sending us what's available.
Example- a dice roll of 1/2 would allow me to buy a T-34, but if 3/4/5/6 comes up I'll have to buy a lighter T-26 or BT-7.
Same dicing can also apply to which types of planes/artillery/troops etc i'll get.
"I have set my life upon a cast, and will stand the hazard of the die"- Richard III

Below- I'm sure this BT-7 crew would rather have had a T-34..
Image

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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by CoolDTA » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:42 am

PoorOldSpike wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:42 am
Newcomers to OOB note-
Unlike campaign play, standalone scenarios allow us to buy exactly what we want, so in that respect they're ideal for newcomers to learn on,
:?:

Krmh, actually campaign play allow us to buy exactly what we want, too. There are no differences.

Your dice roll system is nice. :) Back in the age of dinosaurs we had sthg similar in Panzer General III and it was called weak hand campaign. Following certain rules you had to field also crappy (= more historical) stuff and not just the best of them.

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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:01 am

Alright, I crushed the Japanese for good and this part of the war is sorted. For now, at least.
This is a straightforward pincer move mission and teaches you about supply rules in OoB.
1. Press spacebar to see where the supply bases are. These are the primary goals for both of your pincers.
2. I suggest making the northern one a bit stronger since pushing for the key supply base is a bit easier over the open terrain.
3. Move north towards the supply bases with your southern pincer, watch for hidden AT all the time.
4. Close your pincers behind Nomohan (? that key city?), seize the town. All Japs should now be cut off and be crushed between you and the AI. There is a weak counterattack (two inf) from the north.
5. Oh yeah, buy an additional fighter to gain air superiority over the Japanese and get the fighter ace. One aux strategic and one tactical bomber is enough, there is plenty of enemy AA.

Below is my core deployment. I also went for tank school as a spec and bought 2 new T 26 tanks to my 2 flame tanks. Oh, and the mobile AA and mobile arty are both on trucks and a bit hard to tell apart. Look closely. Onwards towards Poland.
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:41 pm

Alright, this one is a quickie. Dash through Poland, not to the wire this time.
This mission teaches you about roads, paved roads. They make your units fast.
I'll post my deployment below. Note that looking back, I would have brought one more arty unit.
Basically, advance along the paved roads. As usual, be careful about hidden units in forests. Fry them with flame tanks, take no prisoners, but dont get distracted. Push for your objectives.
Always watch for hidden AT, bring some infantry for this.
Also notice that I am still only using regular replacements to save up money for that sweet, sweet Soviet tech coming later.
After this, it is on to Finland which will be a swift victory for the Red Army. I mean, we are outnumbering them four to one, they barely have tanks and planes and some of their areas dont even have roads. Laughable. Should be done in two weeks, three tops. Yeah.
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by bebro » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:49 pm

Andy2012 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:41 pm
After this, it is on to Finland which will be a swift victory for the Red Army. I mean, we are outnumbering them four to one, they barely have tanks and planes and some of their areas dont even have roads. Laughable. Should be done in two weeks, three tops. Yeah.
Hehe :)

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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by bru888 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:30 pm

It's the woods! The woods! Why are there so many trees?!? They lurk in there, they lurk. What we need is a deforestation specialisation! :shock: ( :wink: )
- Bru

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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:40 pm

Okay, I have now pushed my core up to the Mannerheim line. And it is rather cold here. Generally, but also emotionally - the Finns are not so keen on joining the worker's paradise. How rude.

As you see below, I upgraded my artillery to the heavy mortar monsters, 'pounding Ivans'. Range could be better, but the shock damage is totally worth it. Highly recommended.

Generally, take a look at the map and always assume that bebro put inf and AT in all forest hexes near the road. If you keep that in mind, you will not run into his traps.
Push for the first two objectives, recover, slowly (!) go on. You will get aux reinforcements from your starting points, rush them forward to the taken objectives.
Because now the Finns hit your flanks with their skitroops - and they hit pretty hard against your infantry and are very nimble. Nimble however means light weapons means bad against tanks: Hit them with armour and arty and always, always finish them off. No prisoners. After that interlude from the west and north, push for the final two objectives, done.
On to the Mannerheim line, where the Red Army's rigid human wave tactics coupled with not too much emphasis on combined arms coordination (complicated, boring, meetings) will seize the day. Lets not overthink things, comrade.
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by PoorOldSpike » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:00 pm

CoolDTA wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:42 am
..Krmh, actually campaign play allow us to buy exactly what we want, too. There are no differences.
I've dabbled in campaign play and found that the longer it goes on, the more we get hampered by the "core force" thing, and by how many purchase points we can spend etc, because the results of the previous battle have an impact on the next one, but with standalones we get a clean fresh sheet every time.
Also if I remember correctly, campaign battles have "specialisations" which drastically affect gameplay, so like I said it's better for newcomers to stick to standalones at first.
BTW the main reason I don't like campaigns is because we're forced to play battles that we might not want to play because they're too big and long or just plain boring and it feels like we're wading through glue, but with standalones we can choose exactly what we want to play at any given time, for example a nice short fast-moving battle that we can slot into the couple of hours between 'Stargate' and 'Destroyed in Seconds' on TV..:)

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