'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

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GabeKnight
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by GabeKnight » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:16 pm

prestidigitation wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:48 pm
I'm not sure how you managed to pay for 2x high vet KV2 without being bankrupt.
But I was. Twice. :lol:
Somewhere mid-mission at Raseiniai and then again at Smolensk. So what? Doesn't mean that I have to resort to regular repairs then. Just wait a few turns and save the RPs until you can elite repair again.
Regular repairs are solely done to 5-star units with about 1HP damage (or in case of emergency :wink: )

Basically I would consider it bad play or would have made some stupid mistake if the KV2 unit takes more than 1-2HP damage per mission. Only unit I don't care about are recon planes. They get shot down regularly.
And sometimes I go with regular repairs for engineers, too. Although cheap, they suffer huge losses every time, whether they're attacking, being attacked or shot at with arty... :roll:
prestidigitation wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:48 pm
I'd love to see your orbat with that comp though.
Sorry, don't understand this part.
prestidigitation wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:48 pm
I generally see 6 damage on open terrain vs vet 3 tanks to standard infantry if unsupported, and 2 to 4 damage to the same infantry if on open ground. Maybe they take the same damage either way but it sure doesn't feel like it!
I get it, with them combat results being somewhat randomized, the huge infantry losses can vary from 2-6 HP sometimes.
But if you run some tests with the editor, one inf with AT support and one without, using the same attacking and defending units, both full HP and efficiency - you'll see. Same with planes.

WarHomer
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by WarHomer » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:05 am

I also use the KV-2 on the highest diff, but I´m also being careful not to suffer losses with it. I never attack with it, if the combat indicator is higher than 1, and rarely even then.

What I found cost me most were my 3 upgraded T-34. They are harder to keep safe, as the Germans attack them more often.

conboy
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by conboy » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:40 pm

Just finished Yelnya in a little better shape than I had hoped for. End of deployment phase and I still have 429 RPeez (and 6 air CeePeez that I hope I don't have to use -- bought two interceptors based on the mission brief).

Bought no aircraft and played with two mobile AA units.

Only 2 tanks (T-34s) above half-star vet level.

Lots of AT guns left over from previous battle.

Did okay -- beat the scenario on turn 18, most units basically intact. Ready for the next scenario. Still playing on Level 3 -- wonder if that's not my natural level. I was hoping it was level 4 but my last first-time through on the German side proved me wrong. Plenty of challenge for me playing on Level 3 -- it'll take some work to get to a better playing plateau.

My wife says it's better than trying to get to next level on the accordion.

conboy

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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by bru888 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:52 am

conboy wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:40 pm
Still playing on Level 3 -- wonder if that's not my natural level. I was hoping it was level 4 but my last first-time through on the German side proved me wrong. Plenty of challenge for me playing on Level 3 -- it'll take some work to get to a better playing plateau.
I am in complete agreement with you on Level 3. It just feels like the level playing field. 1 and 2 are too easy, and 4 and 5, well, this is supposed to be a game. As a scenario-designer, you now know that the sweet spot is when the game could go either way when an average guy plays on medium difficulty. I must be average because sometimes I win and sometimes I lose on Level 3 and I am fine with that. Just my personal preference, of course.
conboy wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:40 pm
My wife says it's better than trying to get to next level on the accordion.
I don't know. Tell her that you really have to put the squeeze on the Germans in Red Star in order to win. Heh. :)
- Bru

prestidigitation
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by prestidigitation » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:23 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:16 pm
prestidigitation wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:48 pm
I'm not sure how you managed to pay for 2x high vet KV2 without being bankrupt.
But I was. Twice. :lol:
Somewhere mid-mission at Raseiniai and then again at Smolensk. So what? Doesn't mean that I have to resort to regular repairs then. Just wait a few turns and save the RPs until you can elite repair again.
Regular repairs are solely done to 5-star units with about 1HP damage (or in case of emergency :wink: )

Basically I would consider it bad play or would have made some stupid mistake if the KV2 unit takes more than 1-2HP damage per mission. Only unit I don't care about are recon planes. They get shot down regularly.
And sometimes I go with regular repairs for engineers, too. Although cheap, they suffer huge losses every time, whether they're attacking, being attacked or shot at with arty... :roll:
For my tastes in a campaign going bankrupt implies excessive risk. It also means I can't change up my comp if I want to experiment.

Orbat is roughly unit lineup.

I'll take your word for it on open ground supported vs unsupported by AT gun.

prestidigitation
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by prestidigitation » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:30 pm

conboy wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:40 pm
Just finished Yelnya in a little better shape than I had hoped for. End of deployment phase and I still have 429 RPeez (and 6 air CeePeez that I hope I don't have to use -- bought two interceptors based on the mission brief).

Bought no aircraft and played with two mobile AA units.

Only 2 tanks (T-34s) above half-star vet level.

Lots of AT guns left over from previous battle.

Did okay -- beat the scenario on turn 18, most units basically intact. Ready for the next scenario. Still playing on Level 3 -- wonder if that's not my natural level. I was hoping it was level 4 but my last first-time through on the German side proved me wrong. Plenty of challenge for me playing on Level 3 -- it'll take some work to get to a better playing plateau.

My wife says it's better than trying to get to next level on the accordion.

conboy
It's really more a matter of mindset (avoid taking damage on the attack, use terrain to avoid damage when defending) and using AT, AA and artillery to defend your units and defeat enemy high value units. Plus don't end turn on open ground if it can be avoided. If you click the little "i" button on the terrain picture it will tell you that combat outcomes are highly impacted by terrain. More cover and variation between attacker and defender combat stats is good defensive terrain. When I originally played the Brit campaign I had a rough time in some of the scenarios because I avoided jungle like crazy with my infantry. Big mistake as jungle is amazing defensive terrain. This go round I used SAS, humbers (sniper cleanup on jungle edge, running down 1 or 2 str units so they can't reinforce) and gurkas to own the jungle and used it to keep my infantry and AT safe.

Better play and use of supporting assets will result in more resources for elite reinforce, which results in substantially better combat outcomes. Eventually you find you're blowing through content that on the face of it seems like it should be hard, so you're left swapping to a higher difficulty.

conboy
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by conboy » Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:36 pm

@Prestidigitation,
Excellent remarks, all true! Looks great on paper - takes time and effort (and retraining...) to put into practice.
I could use a little magic myself now and then.
I love the Humbers too, maybe best value of any allied unit.

keep awn keepen awwn,

conboy

bebro
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by bebro » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:44 pm

Regarding the fighter/AA comments, AA are a good addition indeed, but I can also see objectives coming in future content that require ***fighters to be achieved....just sayin' ;)

conboy
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by conboy » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:30 pm

Prestidigitation said:
Orbat is roughly unit lineup.
I think it's short for Order of Battle -- unit list and command hierarchy. Presto - correct me if I am wrong.

conboy

prestidigitation
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by prestidigitation » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:36 pm

bebro wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:44 pm
Regarding the fighter/AA comments, AA are a good addition indeed, but I can also see objectives coming in future content that require ***fighters to be achieved....just sayin' ;)
I mean the obvious retort is that you're tracking who kills what based on last hit, so I can 12/13 it with AA and then finish with the fighter. Pretty much the same as today but with a reload if the AA accidentally gets the last hit.

It'd also virtually guarantee most players never get those air aces which is a bummer because they are pretty cool. Maybe damage inflicted but with a low maximum?

BTW, any chance you'll do more of the aces with unique bonus abilities? I loved the flexible movement Japanese ace and the British AOE bonus air ace (intended that he is AOE?). I'd also enjoy some more aoe ground commanders with unique abilities limited to particular unit types. A cavalry commander that boosted the cavalry to same tier infantry stats + gave supply stash would be really cool for example.

CoolDTA
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by CoolDTA » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:17 am

I'd think an objective like "fighters deal XX pts of damage to enemy aircraft" might be the one. It has been used before and then fighters are indeed a requirement.

impossible
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by impossible » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:25 pm

WarHomer wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:05 am
I also use the KV-2 on the highest diff, but I´m also being careful not to suffer losses with it. I never attack with it, if the combat indicator is higher than 1, and rarely even then.

What I found cost me most were my 3 upgraded T-34. They are harder to keep safe, as the Germans attack them more often.
yeah, in red star all we need is kv2. its stupidly OP for a number of reasons and because it rarely gets any serious damage its cheaper on a total cost basis than any other tanks in this game. it needs a massive nerf or a total limit to their numbers because it makes the soviet campaign a walk in the park. i never use elite replacements so i have tons of money to have all my tanks kv2.

bebro
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by bebro » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:25 am

prestidigitation wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:36 pm
BTW, any chance you'll do more of the aces with unique bonus abilities? I loved the flexible movement Japanese ace and the British AOE bonus air ace (intended that he is AOE?). I'd also enjoy some more aoe ground commanders with unique abilities limited to particular unit types. A cavalry commander that boosted the cavalry to same tier infantry stats + gave supply stash would be really cool for example.
FWIW there will be an air cmdr with a small area effect, albeit not coming in too early during the 2nd DLC...

prestidigitation
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Re: 'Tanks, more tanks, Tovarish!' - Red Star Review and Discuss

Post by prestidigitation » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:25 pm

bebro wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:25 am
prestidigitation wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:36 pm
BTW, any chance you'll do more of the aces with unique bonus abilities? I loved the flexible movement Japanese ace and the British AOE bonus air ace (intended that he is AOE?). I'd also enjoy some more aoe ground commanders with unique abilities limited to particular unit types. A cavalry commander that boosted the cavalry to same tier infantry stats + gave supply stash would be really cool for example.
FWIW there will be an air cmdr with a small area effect, albeit not coming in too early during the 2nd DLC...
Now that will be handy and neat! My only issue is that air unit positioning around a leader is awkward with a one hex limit because of movement after attack. It'd be great if the leader aura was two hex for convenience!

I know I have lots of capital T Thoughts but I can't stress enough how much I've enjoyed this particular DLC. Really is a best in class for the series.

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