Forced Labor?

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bru888
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Forced Labor?

Post by bru888 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:18 pm

The specialisation description says "Damaging enemy units on 0 supply and efficiency generates Resource Points." What does that mean, exactly? I assume it's not my units on 0 supply and efficiency damaging enemy units because that's not going to happen.

So it must be me damaging their units on 0 supply and efficiency. How often would that situation arise? I would have to surround a unit, bombard it into oblivion without actually killing it, and then attack it to generate resource points. How many?

Wait a minute. If I cut off an enemy unit from supply and keep it that way for a few turns, it's efficiency will drop to zero on its own. Then attack it and gain resource points. Is that it?

Even so, how often does that happen? It's not as though the AI is going to not take counter-measures as long as its unit is not completely surrounded. I am playing Red Star and I am holding off on spending 7 specialisation points on this one pending on whether I can get an answer here. Thanks.
- Bru

GabeKnight
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Re: Forced Labor?

Post by GabeKnight » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:56 pm

bru888 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:18 pm
Wait a minute. If I cut off an enemy unit from supply and keep it that way for a few turns, it's efficiency will drop to zero on its own. Then attack it and gain resource points. Is that it?
Yep.

Besides the specs that give more CP, the Drop Tank and Forced Labour specs are the only useful ones IMO.
The Brit tanks aren't worth the money and the Guards Infantry, although a nice idea, useless too, as the Marines have way better stats.

You won't get rich with the Forced Labour mechanic, but if you're lucky to surround a whole forward group of tanks, you can get more than a turn's worth of RP out of them. The first turns of the encirclement are crucial, to not let them regain supply, but then they sit around doing basically nothing anymore. You can then even use your Conscripts to take out the enemy units...

bru888
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Re: Forced Labor?

Post by bru888 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:25 pm

Thanks, Gabe. I'm not sure it's worth the spec points.
- Bru

kondi754
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Re: Forced Labor?

Post by kondi754 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:55 pm

Although the use of Forced Labor is debatable to me, I also think that many specializations are unused in OoB
I think an interesting specialty for German faction would be, for example, Panzer Aufklarung Abteilung specs, when the recon unit would receive high anti-tank and anti-infantry defensive statistics boost but at the price of losing some of its recon traits
Recon units played important roles in defense in the second half of the war, having halftracks (also with AT guns) and armored cars were very often used for counterattacks in places where the front was broken
German reconnaissance units from the panzer divisions were a tough opponent for everyone and didn't act like a typical recon unit in OoB

GUNDOBALDO08
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Re: Forced Labor?

Post by GUNDOBALDO08 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:34 pm

I love Forced Labor spec, very enjoing to encircle enemy units, let them loose efficency and after collect rp eliminating them...
About guards i think better if give more advantage to player... and get new and specific 3d model!

bru888
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Re: Forced Labor?

Post by bru888 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:46 pm

GUNDOBALDO08 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:34 pm
I love Forced Labor spec, very enjoing to encircle enemy units, let them loose efficency and after collect rp eliminating them...
So, do you find that you have the opportunity to do this often enough to justify spending the 7 specialisation points on it?
- Bru

CoolDTA
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Re: Forced Labor?

Post by CoolDTA » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:52 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:56 pm
Besides the specs that give more CP, the Drop Tank and Forced Labour specs are the only useful ones IMO.
The Brit tanks aren't worth the money and the Guards Infantry, although a nice idea, useless too, as the Marines have way better stats.
Imo Scrambling is ok considering what is available. Was also disappointed to Guards. :(

riggas13
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Re: Forced Labor?

Post by riggas13 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:49 am

bru888 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:46 pm
So, do you find that you have the opportunity to do this often enough to justify spending the 7 specialisation points on it?
Hi!
I finally finished the campaign last night and found I only had a handful of opportunities to encircle enemies to use forced labor. I think being on the defensive for much of the campaign makes it harder to do unless you get creative. However I think in the next dlc if it’s more offensive it will be much more useful, if you carry your core forces and specs through that is.

kondi754
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Re: Forced Labor?

Post by kondi754 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:03 am

When Forced Labor is needed?

German GC :arrow:
I suppose it's good to have this spec before Dunkirk scn (but this spec is available since 6/1941), Minsk, Smolensk and Kyev should also give many oportunities to use this, Kharkov 42 scn from PK only (ok, maybe also Sevastopol, Kalach and Caucasus in small scale) and this is all

Soviet GC , I expect that Stalingrad and 44-45 battles will be good for this

For the Japanese, the benefits of its use will be rather modest, because there is no special possibility of making large pockets

bru888
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Re: Forced Labor?

Post by bru888 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:09 pm

Thanks everybody for your responses so far. I am now more interested in this specialisation now that it has been explained to me and I have seen that members do use it to their benefit.

Here's something else about "Forced Labor" that is thought-provoking perhaps: The accompanying blurb says "Sheltering thousands of prisoners of war puts a huge strain on our economy and logistics, unless they are deployed as an involuntary workforce."

So envision this: We have surrounded a pocket of enemy forces, cut off from supply or retreat. We proceed to "milk" them for resources by striking them while they are on zero efficiency. How does the "involuntary workforce" factor into this? Are we to imagine a forced labor pool being sent in to pillage and rob the dead?

I'm speaking of logic, not about game programming, of course. There are no slave labor units in the game.

My question is, what could have been the connection in the designer's mind? Or was it just something to call it for a feature that he wanted to include?
- Bru

kondi754
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Re: Forced Labor?

Post by kondi754 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:21 pm

bru888 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:09 pm
Thanks everybody for your responses so far. I am now more interested in this specialisation now that it has been explained to me and I have seen that members do use it to their benefit.

Here's something else about "Forced Labor" that is thought-provoking perhaps: The accompanying blurb says "Sheltering thousands of prisoners of war puts a huge strain on our economy and logistics, unless they are deployed as an involuntary workforce."

So envision this: We have surrounded a pocket of enemy forces, cut off from supply or retreat. We proceed to "milk" them for resources by striking them while they are on zero efficiency. How does the "involuntary workforce" factor into this? Are we to imagine a forced labor pool being sent in to pillage and rob the dead?

I'm speaking of logic, not about game programming, of course. There are no slave labor units in the game.

My question is, what could have been the connection in the designer's mind? Or was it just something to call it for a feature that he wanted to include?

See which factions this specialization concerns - Germany, USSR and Japan, so countries where prisoners of war were treated the worst
One could say that even barbaric - German concentration camps, where, in addition to Jews, Roma people, members of the resistance, communists, socialists, homosexuals, millions of Soviet soldiers were thrown in and worked there.
Japanese prisoner-of-war camps in Burma and the Philippines - famous for their cruelty and vile living conditions
Soviet Gulag in the far north and Siberia, also...

OMF, I almost forgot, but there were also Soviet volunteer (Hiwi) in Wehrmacht
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiwi_(volunteer)

so togther with the elimination of more Soviet units, the number of Hiwi increased

bebro
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Re: Forced Labor?

Post by bebro » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:49 pm

bru888 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:09 pm
My question is, what could have been the connection in the designer's mind? Or was it just something to call it for a feature that he wanted to include?
*shrug*

Back then I was happy to create 3d models only.

*Maybe (I mean mayyybeee) the idea was that out-of-supply units are destined to result in POWs (since often they'd surrender/get captured) which are then deployed as workforce > economic impact > RP. No idea really, but I could imagine someth. along those lines.

bru888
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Re: Forced Labor?

Post by bru888 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:02 pm

bebro wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:49 pm
*Maybe (I mean mayyybeee) the idea was that out-of-supply units are destined to result in POWs (since often they'd surrender/get captured) which are then deployed as workforce > economic impact > RP. No idea really, but I could imagine someth. along those lines.
That is a very good thought. Accurate or not, it makes sense and gives some meaning to the whole idea.

Thanks again, everybody; I believe I will purchase Forced Labor now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzJufBRbZ1c
- Bru

Erik2
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Re: Forced Labor?

Post by Erik2 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:52 am

Bru, you're already doing forced labor. Works for me :D

bru888
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Re: Forced Labor?

Post by bru888 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:40 pm

Erik2 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:52 am
Bru, you're already doing forced labor. Works for me :D
Heh, speaking of which, I will get back to my current task later today.
- Bru

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