Battle of Zama

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sbilmer
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Battle of Zama

Post by sbilmer » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:38 pm

I can't beat this battle (can't even get close). You have to defeat 16 squads (including Hannibal) and are only allowed 12, and there's a time limit to boot. My best troops are only level 15ish, and I usually lose when he has about 4 or 5 squads left. If anybody has beaten this one, please give me some tips - I've been struggling with it for days (yes, days...)

Thanks

PPR
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Post by PPR » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:44 pm

I am in the same boat as you mate, attack the center and make them flee. Then his flacks will attack you respectively then send cavalry to attack these flanks.

IainMcNeil
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Post by IainMcNeil » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:09 am

Make sure you're using the terrain to good advantage. Put your cavalry vs his skirmishers in the open and your axuiliaries in any rough/difficult terrain and lure his battle troops on to you if possible.

kongming
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Post by kongming » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:08 am

Hannibal has a potent force here, spread out in his classic weak center, strong flanks deployment. My strategy has been to try to be sure the bulk of the battle happens on the ridge, where Hannibal's best troops will be at a disadvantage, particularly his cavalry.

My 4 legions charge the left flank, supported by archers, hoping to mop up that side in time to then engage in the main battle on the ridge line.

My 2 heavy cav charge their skirmishers and archers on the left side of their ridge contingent, hoping to disrupt them and keep them from doing too much damage to my main line troops. Disengage immediately. They then skulk around the edges, looking for chances to engage skirmishers or archers, then finally charge in to the main battle line from behind.

Meanwhile, my 3 aux are staking out the ridge line. These boys have the toughest assignment as they have to hold out long enough for the legions to defeat the left flank and then move to support. The aux end up routing, but it is no disgrace to them.

It ends up as a scrum. it ain't pretty but it works.
“There are only a few notes in the scale.
Yet you can always rearrange them.
You can never hear every song of victory”
- Sun Tzu, the Art of War

Danifex
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Post by Danifex » Fri May 16, 2008 11:11 pm

I finished the roman campaign but in the tutorial say that the roman campaign open the celt campaign but there isn't other campaign except the latin campaign(tutorial). I need to know about it is correct or is a error.

IainMcNeil
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Post by IainMcNeil » Mon May 19, 2008 8:25 am

It is not in the game, the manual is wrong but you can download the Celt Campaign fix to add :)

pgeerkens
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Post by pgeerkens » Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:42 am

I run this a bit differently than kongming(in VH), virtually all in the open terrain instead of the ridge. The core of my army at this point (playing GBOR, so I am retaining some high-level early troops) comprises:
1 Legate
2 Aux Cav / 1 Aux Cav & 1 Nobles
2 Triari / 1 Triari & 1 Spearman
4 Princeps/Hastati, either 3 + 1 or 2 + 2
3 Skirmisher/Velite (in practice always 2 & 1, as the second velite is lagging too many levels)

My Hvy Cav charge Hannibal's two left-ridge (his left, my right) missilers (on a post-pattern from my right to minimize both time spent in the missile rain and interference by other troops on the ridge) and retreat as soon as the missilers are eliminated. They will then work around his flanks and nail his other missilers as opportuniy allows. Hopefully (and usually) one troop survives this 2nd round to help get H's last elite on the (my) far left.

My infantry marches down the far right in 2 columns, as follows, all in Offensive & Disciplined:
Tri Sp
Pr V
Pr Sk
Ha Sk
Ha

The Triari and Spearman dispose of his cav then hit the flank of his elites while my missielrs rain javelins on them, and my swordsmen hold the centre. H's lights come off the ridge at me, giving my cav the chance at his remaining missilers. I try to keep either Princeps 1 or Trari 1 from getting too bloodied, as they get the final honour of racing to the far side of the field to engage H's last elite unit. Time it so that another unit hits them behind just after first contact, and your Legate comes in then also, and H is a goner. I often have 4 or even 5 units, and perhaps 10 or 15 seconds, left at the end.

It's vital at key portions of the battle to keep your Legate in the thick of things, to sustain morale.

Also, those missilers can be quite effective at providing the final push to a beatup Carthaginian on the ridge, or at hitting one from behind to get the 'surounded' combat bonus against H's heavies; but as long as they have javelins, keep tossing at the toughest infantry H has on the field.
Last edited by pgeerkens on Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

julienchappel
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Battle of Zama

Post by julienchappel » Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:37 am

While in real history Scipio won the battle with the Cavalry wiping out the flanks and attacking the main Carthagian body from the rear, I do it differently in the game. Usually when I get to this stage I have 2 Principes at about level 14-15, 5 legions between level 9 and 11 and 4 Auxiliary infantry between level 9 and 11 for the battle. All of them during promotion set to be Endurance, Swordsman, Missile Protection and Armour Penetration. All of them at least Advanced Infantry Experts. All of them are Disciplined, Offensive and set to charge.
I line up the army in the left side of the rough Ground in such a way:

Open Ground toward the middle close to the rough ground
P(14), L(10), L(11), P(15) Aux(9), Aux(9), Aux(10), Aux(11), L(9)
L(10), L(9)

Make sure that the Aux(9) in the left is in line with the left side skirmishers and the L(9) on the right of the Auxiliaries is in line with Heavies in the rough. Move both lines to the forward boudry and click on the Fight.

The Auxiliaries will wipe out the light infantry, the skirmishers and help to clean out the Hevies in the rough ground. I usually loose L(9) in this part of the battle. The rest of the army from the far right will be lured to the rough ground. Pay attention to the small Open Ground in the midlle of the Rough, move away all your Auxiliaries from there deeply in the left side of the rough Ground. By then your hevies in the far left finished off the Elite heavy troops and ready to shore up your Auxiliaries in the rough ground. By that time even in the "Very Hard" level you are in overwhelmingly outnumber your enemy. Direct your Principes and Legions into the fray, send your legate there too, however use L(9) to wipe out the enemy skirmishers in the far top and bottom right. With "medium Hard" I achieve victory with this setup with 20-25 secs left and about six units remained with losses by the second or third attempt. With the "very hard" options nearly the same but had to try more times. It is very important how the the troops with the various promotion levels are distributed.

cifko
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Post by cifko » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:38 pm

I used this tactic to won the battle

I put my whole army on left flank where is his heavy cavalry, and take one troop(one who isn't much of help) to the bottom of the middle flank. So i defeat the left flank and in the same time I wait for the middle flank to reach my only troop in middle, with them i lure them first on left flank and then to the top. So that i can charge with my left flank in upper field
to the enemy troops who are marching towards me (for that part you must be fast on fingers). So you must charge with every troop except 2 or 3(depends on how is your army built).With that 2-3 troops you charge to the right flank. I suggest that troops are heavy (cavalry or heavy infantry).

I had 6 cavalry units by the time I wont his battle

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Post by Icantdothis » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:55 pm

I will try again, but this is really frustrating. I have tried several diffirant ways with diffirant type troops units, have also restarted new campaigns in the hope of getting that right mix of troops to win. Will post again if I win!

pgeerkens
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Post by pgeerkens » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:38 pm

Remember - this is Hannibal you are facing. This battle is supposed to be very difficult.

I now make better use of velites over skirmishers, and fight the main battle on the ridge after racing down to defeat H's right wing heavies with my heavies, while my cavalry cleans up H's missilers around the periphery. On VH I am better than 25-30% at winning

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Post by Icantdothis » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:49 pm

I started the campaign over again, so hope to win when I get to Zama. Is this the last in the game?

Do you upgrade any of your troops as you go with the cash you get each do?

pgeerkens
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Re: Battle of Zama

Post by pgeerkens » Sun May 17, 2015 7:16 pm

Absolutely! I play only on Very Hard and couldn't more than a couple of scenarios in if I wasn't training and equipping my units.

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Re: Battle of Zama

Post by pgeerkens » Sun May 17, 2015 7:40 pm

My typical army for this scenario, in purchase order, is:
Legate - Level 18
Scout - Level 20
Spearman - Level 19
Skirmisher * 2 - Level 16
Velites * 2 - Level 16
Principe - Level 15
Triarii - Level 15
Legionary - Level 10
Auxilia - Level 9
AuxiliaryCavalry - Level 11

All non-missilers are trained as anti-infantry except the Triarii, and the Spearman who do double duty until the Triarii are available

Hannibal's cavalry on my right are handled by the Triari, who line up with the Spanish Cavalry and back a bit from the start line, to force Hannibal's cavalry to fight up-slope.

The Legionary, Principe, and both Skirmishers line up to catch the two units of Hannibal's Veterans on our left who release after a short hold; again back slightly from the start line to defend on the slope.

The Auxilia and both Velites line up on a spur of the central ridge, lined up against Hannibal's Guard to defend against them both with terrain and slope advantage.

All units above are on Long Hold, waiting to defend on their chosen terrain.

The two cavalry units charge down the right hand side of central ridge: Scouts pivoting through one Spanish Caetrati to the second; and Auxiliary Cavalry pivoting on one Balearics to trample the entire line from it to the other. the Legate trails them (to protect against a lucky missile roll) and asssits if either cavalry gets stuck. The Spearmen charge straight through the centre against the rightmost Spanish Scutarii to assist with the mopping up of Hannibal's light infantry line. Use the Legate's targeting ability to pull the leftmost Balearics off of their rough terrain.

If all of the above is executed properly the Triarii will dispose Hannibal' cavalry is light losses; the Cavalry, Legate and Spearmen will be situated on the ridge where Hannibal will shortly arrive in a heroic, and futile, effort to save the Carthaginian Empire; Hannibal's Guard will break itself against the Auxilia and Velites in the centre. All that remains is to mop up the last Veterans with all remaining missilers, healthiest remaining infantry; Legate, and Auxiliary Cavalry.

Done correctly you should have 30 to 40 minutes left on the clock, which with practice you will use to have your Cavalry pick up some additional trample kills against Hannibals' fleeing infantry.

You should run about 50% odds of having no units panic from the field, or having just the Scouts panic from the field - they are susceptible to receiving a couple of critical hits early from Hannibal's Spanish Caetrati, and then not having quite enough oomph to push through the second and survive.

My most recent run through this battle, with the army outlined above, cost me 305 Prestige Points to rebuild.

Check this post (viewtopic.php?f=28&t=64736) for further Training Hints

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