Pike and Shot announced

Byzantine Productions Pike and Shot is a deep strategy game set during the bloody conflict of the Thirty Years War.

Moderators: rbodleyscott, Slitherine Core, Gothic Labs

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22071
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by rbodleyscott » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:28 pm

Micha wrote:Hello, this sounds verry similar to the Field of Glory rules, or am i wrong ?
If you are talking about the turn sequence, well it isn't really all that similar to Field of Glory:Renaissance tabletop miniatures rules, in which the phases are less intermingled. It also differs in some ways from FOG-PC - which (for example) does not have reactive fire.

If you are talking about the whole game system, then yes it is as I am also the lead developer of the Tabletop Miniatures Field of Glory Ancient/Medieval and Renaissance rule sets. (But not the Napoleonic ones, and not FOG-PC, although that was based on the Tabletop Ancient/Medieval rules).

Edited: For clarification re FOG Tabletop/PC
Last edited by rbodleyscott on Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22071
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by rbodleyscott » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:30 pm

TheGrayMouser wrote: Again thanks for the informative response. I do agree with the POA's and interactions between historical foes as is, so I wont likly mod stuff for historical scenarious etc. However, I tend to be greatly interested in causality which I suppose would be a "bottom up " aproach vs the top down which is more one of "effect".

So, for historically a-histocial :wink: line ups its great this game is moddable. I have always questioned if the pistol in of itself was suprior to the lance or if other factors came in to play So, what if Chev. Bayard was leading REAL gendarmes of say Francis ist at Coutras, rather than the troopers and or courtiers under Joyeouse, would the outcome have been differnt? Cheers!
Interesting to speculate but impossible to know. We only know what (is said to have) actually happened, not the bottom-up reason for it. Hence the top-down - get the effect historically right and don't worry too much about the nuts and bolts - approach.

But you are free to experiment of course.

Scutarii
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 559
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:28 am

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by Scutarii » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:51 pm

Ummm if units that dont have action in your part of the turn have autofire... i assume there is no low ammo effects in game no???

Modding... i like how some games now have a custom folder where you can put mod files, game load these files over stock files and works ok for things like images, flags etc etc.

Thanks for the info.

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22071
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by rbodleyscott » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:42 am

Scutarii wrote:Ummm if units that dont have action in your part of the turn have autofire... i assume there is no low ammo effects in game no???
Correct. We are trying to avoid micromanagement.
Modding... i like how some games now have a custom folder where you can put mod files, game load these files over stock files and works ok for things like images, flags etc etc.
That is how it works in Pike and Shot.

Micha63
1st Lieutenant - Grenadier
1st Lieutenant - Grenadier
Posts: 774
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:56 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by Micha63 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:10 am

Is it possible to release a small video or demo now ?

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22071
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by rbodleyscott » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:15 am

Micha wrote:Is it possible to release a small video or demo now ?
Not yet, but hopefully fairly soon.

Schweinewitz
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:51 pm
Location: Münster, Germany

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by Schweinewitz » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:17 pm

Modding... i like how some games now have a custom folder where you can put mod files, game load these files over stock files and works ok for things like images, flags etc etc.
That is how it works in Pike and Shot.
That's cool. And it's getting better and better ... 8)

-------

@Micha:

Sieht so aus, als hätten wir da unser Spiel gefunden, was? :wink:

Scutarii
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 559
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:28 am

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by Scutarii » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:58 pm

Thanks for the info.

I dont say bad no low ammo effects in units even when i prefer have this feature.

I like the point in modding, no more secondary installations or support folders to save original files :wink:

OMG!!! the word with S!!! NOOO the S word in a game is a bad signal ... many people say that Soon word was the "beta" for Valve Time :mrgreen:

In my case this word have physical effects... rash!!! :mrgreen:

Image

Schweinewitz
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:51 pm
Location: Münster, Germany

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by Schweinewitz » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:41 am

How mobile will the artillery be in the game?

ATM I'm reading about the battle of Jankau 1645; the mobility of the Swedish artillery was an decisive aspect for Torstensson's victory. Before that artillery batteries were used more or less stationary apart maybe the lighter guns. Any plans or ideas how to represent that?

___

Will there be units/graphics to represent camps and baggage trains? (IMO the first could be important for several scenarios (siege-like situations), the latter would be nice for raids like in said battle when the Imperial cavalry captured the Swedish train.)

___

(Oh, I'm a Stuka now ... :roll: )

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22071
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by rbodleyscott » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:45 pm

Schweinewitz wrote:How mobile will the artillery be in the game?

ATM I'm reading about the battle of Jankau 1645; the mobility of the Swedish artillery was an decisive aspect for Torstensson's victory. Before that artillery batteries were used more or less stationary apart maybe the lighter guns. Any plans or ideas how to represent that?
Light artillery can move one tile per turn, but cannot shoot when they move. Heavy/medium artillery are only able to move when limbered, and once unlimbered they don't move except to pivot, and cannot shoot on the turn when they pivot.

The original plan was not to allow heavy/medium guns to re-limber. However, we were prevailed upon to take pity on the players and allow heavy/medium guns to re-limber during the game. This is a playability decision and not necessarily representative of our historical viewpoint.
Will there be units/graphics to represent camps and baggage trains? (IMO the first could be important for several scenarios (siege-like situations), the latter would be nice for raids like in said battle when the Imperial cavalry captured the Swedish train.)
Certainly there are camp and baggage objects. They don't current have any effect, but that could be scripted in for scenarios where they matter.

Schweinewitz
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:51 pm
Location: Münster, Germany

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by Schweinewitz » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:09 pm

That's good news! I like games to be complex but not that kind of complexity that ruins playability; P&S seems to be well balanced regarding this point. I'm really looking forward to work with the editor and exploring the modding possibilities.
_____

Another question regarding buildings and terrain: Will there be ruins and burning buildings? Wallenstein let his troops set fire to Lützen so that the Swedes could not occupy the town. Would be nice to see it burn in a scenario, I'm a romantic regarding such details. :twisted:
_____

I've said it before, but I can't get it out of my mind, so sorry for repeating it: We need terrain graphics for the changing seasons. Lützen or Jankau and other battles that took place in autumn or winter would look and feel strange with the springtime-like landscape that can be seen in the screenshots. Please do reconsider this. - Ok, I'll be quiet now. :)

Micha63
1st Lieutenant - Grenadier
1st Lieutenant - Grenadier
Posts: 774
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:56 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by Micha63 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:14 pm

[quote="rbodleyscott"][quote="Schweinewitz"]How mobile will the artillery be in the game?

Light artillery can move one tile per turn, but cannot shoot when they move. Heavy/medium artillery are only able to move when limbered, and once unlimbered they don't move except to pivot, and cannot shoot on the turn when they pivot.

[quote]

Verry said to hear about this rule. I would like it arty can move and fire in the same turn. Maybe you could add it as an optional rule.

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22071
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by rbodleyscott » Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:27 am

Micha wrote:I would like it arty can move and fire in the same turn. Maybe you could add it as an optional rule.
The light guns attached to battalions can move and shoot, even when the battalion charges. In addition to battalions with attached guns, the game already has commanded shot units with attached guns - which should do nicely for the wings at Jankau.

The repositioning of the heavy artillery can be accomplished by limbering, moving and unlimbering.

Tortensson's achievement in moving the heavy artillery so quickly during the battle was exceptional. The problem with making rules that cover exceptional cases is that players will then use those abilities in every case - so to make a few scenarios more realistic you are making the majority less realistic.

If you want heavier artillery to be more mobile in a Jankau scenario (Jankau is not one of the battles in the main set), there is nothing to stop you making a more mobile medium/heavy artillery unit by putting a unit in the units spreadsheet set as the light artillery troop type but with a longer range and more movement points. You can use the heavy artillery graphic and sound effects. They would not need to spend turns limbering and unlimbering. They would not be able to move and shoot on the same turn without altering some scripts, but moving and shooting on the same turn is not really necessary to simulate Tortensson's achievement. We are not in the era of Napoleonic horse artillery.
Last edited by rbodleyscott on Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:27 am, edited 4 times in total.

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22071
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by rbodleyscott » Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:56 am

Schweinewitz wrote:Another question regarding buildings and terrain: Will there be ruins and burning buildings? Wallenstein let his troops set fire to Lützen so that the Swedes could not occupy the town. Would be nice to see it burn in a scenario, I'm a romantic regarding such details. :twisted:
Our graphics artist was talking of making Lutzen burn - if his schedule permits - but it might not make the cut. So far there are ruined walls but not other ruined building - but who knows what will make the final cut.
I've said it before, but I can't get it out of my mind, so sorry for repeating it: We need terrain graphics for the changing seasons. Lützen or Jankau and other battles that took place in autumn or winter would look and feel strange with the springtime-like landscape that can be seen in the screenshots. Please do reconsider this. - Ok, I'll be quiet now. :)
We do have a number of different crops to cover different agricultural seasons. We don't have plans to have snow scenes etc. in the initial release.
Last edited by rbodleyscott on Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Micha63
1st Lieutenant - Grenadier
1st Lieutenant - Grenadier
Posts: 774
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:56 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by Micha63 » Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:58 am

Ok, thanks for info, i think you are rigth.

Ivenend
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:08 pm

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by Ivenend » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:09 pm

Are there any unit with heavy weapons such as german two-handed swords ?

Scutarii
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 559
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:28 am

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by Scutarii » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:37 pm

Ummm but even with no burning graphics... it has any value in game??? for example units in a burning square suffer morale penalty??? i think in "Steel panthers" and how units in a hex with destroyed vehicles suffer morale problems.

Thanks.

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22071
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by rbodleyscott » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:04 pm

Ivenend wrote:Are there any unit with heavy weapons such as german two-handed swords ?
Swiss halberdiers. Also most 16th century Swiss or Landsknecht pike keils have a proportion of men with two-handed-swords or halberds.

Obviously a Landsknecht verlorene haufen unit with two-handed swords would be possible, but there isn't one in any of the current scenarios. It could easily be added to the units spreadsheet for your own scenarios - the rules for heavy weapons are in place.

Early 16th century Spanish pike units and colunelas have a proportion of sword-and-bucklermen. There are also separate sword-and-bucklermen (rodeleros) units at Seminara.

Heavy weapon and swordmen capabilities have different interactions with enemy capabilities, but they both give an extra overlap bonus against smaller enemy units. Heavy weapon ignore enemy armour advantage. Swordsmen are particularly good against disordered/disrupted enemy units.
Last edited by rbodleyscott on Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:20 pm, edited 10 times in total.

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22071
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by rbodleyscott » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:08 pm

Scutarii wrote:Ummm but even with no burning graphics... it has any value in game??? for example units in a burning square suffer morale penalty??? i think in "Steel panthers" and how units in a hex with destroyed vehicles suffer morale problems.

Thanks.
Well since none of the current scenarios involve sieges, not as yet. There is no real reason for the Swedes to enter Lutzen during the battle (the only fighting immediately around Lutzen is in the orchards outside the city) so it doesn't really matter (except for aesthetic reasons) whether it is on fire.

Ivenend
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:08 pm

Re: Pike and Shot announced

Post by Ivenend » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:37 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:
Ivenend wrote:Are there any unit with heavy weapons such as german two-handed swords ?
....
Obviously a Landsknecht verlorene haufen unit with two-handed swords would be possible, but there isn't one in any of the current scenarios. It could easily be added to the units spreadsheet for your own scenarios - the rules for heavy weapons are in place.
...
Thanks for your relpy, would you add them in the expansion of the Italy wars ?

Post Reply

Return to “Pike & Shot”