Battle of Ligny scenario.

Byzantine Productions Pike and Shot is a deep strategy game set during the bloody conflict of the Thirty Years War.

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Rhetor
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Battle of Ligny scenario.

Post by Rhetor » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:04 am

Dear All,

having purchased the game - finally - I looked into the battle of Ligny scenario, to satisfy my thirst for Napoleonic warfare.

I was immediately surprised to see that the range, on which infantry seems to be able to fire is, so to speak, ridiculously long. Of course, smoothbore and rifled muskets of the time were theoretically able to fire their projectile quite far away from the shooter, but to hit anything at this range required a great deal of luck; therefore, rarely anyone would venture to fire, when the target was more than 200-300 meters away.
Is it possible to alter weapons range in the editor?

The other thing that surprises me is that I don't seem to be able to make any artillery limber in order to move it around on the battlefield. Am I missing something?

Philippeatbay
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Re: Battle of Ligny scenario.

Post by Philippeatbay » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:58 pm

I love the Pike and Shot engine for what it's supposed to do, and what it's supposed to do is mirror 16th and 17th century warfare. When you get outside of that period you start having problems, like artillery that doesn't limber.

While I applaud those who've made the more experimental mods for their industry and imagination, I sometimes wish they concentrated more of their energies and their talents on modding the things the Pike and Shot engine was designed to handle.

When I want to play the battle of Ligny because I have a Napoleonic itch that needs scratching, I'm much more likely to play something like this in which Napoleonic warfare is native to the game engine:

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Adebar
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Re: Battle of Ligny scenario.

Post by Adebar » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:29 am

I agree with you that the P&S is best suitable for the time period it was built for, although I absolutely enjoy some of the 'anachronistic' scenarios, especially the 14th and 15th century ones by Odenathus. IMO the game handles this period quite well too.

I'm still looking for games covering 18th and 19th century warfare, and I'd love to see P&S/FOG expansions covering that era.

Unfortunately the HPS/JT games are not an option for me because of the outworn game engine, clunky UI, non-exsistent AI and excessively clickfest while moving 200+ units around the vast maps (I actually came down with TSV while playing the 1812 campaign :| ).
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Micha63
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Re: Battle of Ligny scenario.

Post by Micha63 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:20 am

Adebar wrote: Unfortunately the HPS/JT games are not an option for me because of the outworn game engine, clunky UI, non-exsistent AI and excessively clickfest while moving 200+ units around the vast maps (I actually came down with TSV while playing the 1812 campaign :| ).
You said it verry well. Thats were the reasons why i converted countless John Tiller battles to Peoples General. I know its an outdated game, but playing John Tiller scenarios was no fun for me because of the strange interface, rules and endless battles.
If i had have PS some years earlyer i would have done most of my projects for P ans S.

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Re: Battle of Ligny scenario.

Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:03 am

Philippe_at_bay wrote:I love the Pike and Shot engine for what it's supposed to do, and what it's supposed to do is mirror 16th and 17th century warfare. When you get outside of that period you start having problems, like artillery that doesn't limber.
I presume you mean that does not limber and move in the same turn. This could easily be changed by modding the scripts.
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Rhetor
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Re: Battle of Ligny scenario.

Post by Rhetor » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:46 am

Having tested some other scenarios, this time coming from the time period covered in the game, I find this particular engine very good, and - given some changes - particularly well suited to Napoleonic period. I especially like the ability of light units to avoid melee, which make them as annoying as they historically should be.

The limber/unlimber issue seems to be a peculiarity of Ligny scenario.

However, I still find the firing ranges somewhat too great, especially when it comes to artillery in Thirty Years War scenarios. Something that should be possible to tweak in the editor.

I do know John Tiller Games back from the Battlegrounds. I do own both BG Waterloo and Campaign Waterloo. They are great, but also time-consuming, and - lacking time - I need a more fast-paced game.

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Re: Battle of Ligny scenario.

Post by edward77 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:16 am

Well we all have our preferences. Regarding Ligny, apart from the Horse Artillery which can move ,the lack of limber on the heavy units is deliberate to save unit places for the other types, because of the 64 unit limitation and achieving a balance between the sides. I agree that P&S will never be as good as a game designed specifically for Napoleonics so why would you look to P&S "to satisfy my thirst for Napoleonic warfare" That`s a contradiction in terms!
For some of us the creative instinct is greater than just playing and the P&S engine provides a very powerful and attractive system which positively promotes curiosity and given the wonderful support provided by RBS and others, presents an opportunity to learn from others on how to write scripts, apply mods, do all the research on battle dress, flag colours etc. The objective is not to get the best Napoleonics but see how far you can go. We all get our kicks in different ways. I have not had this much fun since TOAW!

Adebar
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Re: Battle of Ligny scenario.

Post by Adebar » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:33 pm

edward77 wrote:I have not had this much fun since TOAW!
And I have to admit that I have not had this much fun since another of Norm's games, Age of Rifles. :wink:
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Rhetor
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Re: Battle of Ligny scenario.

Post by Rhetor » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:10 pm

edward77 wrote:Well we all have our preferences. Regarding Ligny, apart from the Horse Artillery which can move ,the lack of limber on the heavy units is deliberate to save unit places for the other types, because of the 64 unit limitation and achieving a balance between the sides.
I wasn't aware of that!
edward77 wrote:I agree that P&S will never be as good as a game designed specifically for Napoleonics so why would you look to P&S "to satisfy my thirst for Napoleonic warfare" That`s a contradiction in terms!
Napoleonic is one of my favorite periods in war history, and oither games have their limitations, unfortunately. Pike and Shot has a handful of ingenious features, greatly simplifying a turn-based game. Maybe there are ways to tweak it further, and I will try to do it. You're right, modding is sometimes fun than playing the finished scenario :)

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