I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

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fogman
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by fogman » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:42 am

this is the situation i was referring to: the AI's gendarme unit would not attack the Neapolitan foot.
seminara ai.jpg
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and i note, by the way, that Field of Glory has many unit classes that easily anarchy charge, regardless of the odds.

rbodleyscott
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:29 am

fogman wrote:something's going on...
Weird.
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rbodleyscott
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:30 am

fogman wrote:and i note, by the way, that Field of Glory has many unit classes that easily anarchy charge, regardless of the odds.
Not quite the same thing as you were describing, and FOGR (on which Pike and Shot is based) doesn't.
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fogman
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by fogman » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:07 pm

is it true that combat resolutions are all done together before a turn? i can see the rout % updated before melees are conducted. as a matter of fact i can also see in the rout % before hand if a unit will rally.

i don't get spears. there doesn't seem to be any difference whether you have 30% or 90%: having 30% gives you the same benefits as 90%.

can the combined weapons % theoretically go over 100? for example 30% swords, 80% heavy weapons. i realize some are 'free' like 'impact foot' (although it doesn't make a difference whether it's 50 or 100 in value).

rbodleyscott
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by rbodleyscott » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:35 pm

fogman wrote:is it true that combat resolutions are all done together before a turn? i can see the rout % updated before melees are conducted. as a matter of fact i can also see in the rout % before hand if a unit will rally.
Combat results are queued to be displayed to the player. Otherwise everything would go by in a flash and you would not be able to take anything in. So yes, the combats are all resolved before the results of any are displayed, with the exception of combats resulting from pursuit charges, which go into the queue at a later stage.
i don't get spears. there doesn't seem to be any difference whether you have 30% or 90%: having 30% gives you the same benefits as 90%.
That is correct, so they should not be mixed with troops that have their own POAs.

The system is based on FOGR, which envisages Spearmen as being in a concerted deep (8 ranks) phalanx and normally being in unmixed units (or perhaps with a few archers in the rear ranks, not affecting the spear POAs). One or two ranks of spearmen in front of archers or crossbowmen would normally be represented by giving the unit Light Spear capability rather than making the unit 30% Spearmen.

What mixed units did you have in mind?
can the combined weapons % theoretically go over 100? for example 30% swords, 80% heavy weapons.
They could, but depending on which capabilities are involved, anomalies could occur. In your example, for instance, 10% of the men would be getting POAs for swords and heavy weapon at the same time in the Melee phase.

In other examples, as in early 16th century Polish lancer banners, there might be 50% Lancers, 50% crossbowmen, 100% swordsmen. In this case half the men are Lancers, Swordsmen, and half are Crossbows, Swordsmen. However, nobody is getting POAs for two weapons in the same "phase" of combat, as Lances only count at Impact, Swords in Melee and Crossbows in Shooting.
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fogman
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by fogman » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:11 pm

i don't want the swiss to get keil bonus so i used spears and heavy weapons.
the rodeleros are swords and heavy weapons.
i've been playing around with different levels to get the right flow and have settled on a working formula.
i completely abstracted non melee weapons.

the idea is not to get the right historical proportions but how the different units interact to get the right historical flow of the battle. seminara, one of the last great medieval battles, is a fine example of that; with the battle fully shock tactics, it gives a good idea of what the engine can do in the medieval period.

fogman
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by fogman » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:19 pm

1. how do you make waterways blue?

2. there seems to be a mistake here. the fragmented Swiss unit (70% spears) with spears should get 0 and not 100 POA for spears.
spear.jpg
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rbodleyscott
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by rbodleyscott » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:40 pm

fogman wrote:1. how do you make waterways blue?
Depends what you mean by blue. Water tiles show differently on PC and iPad. On PC they have the reflective water effect, on iPad they are blue (they use a blue tile because the iPad cannot display the reflective effect).
2. there seems to be a mistake here. the fragmented Swiss unit (70% spears) with spears should get 0 and not 100 POA for spears.
This does appear to be a bug. As we have not used Spearmen in any of the vanilla scenarios or army lists, they have not been extensively tested, so this bug has not previously come to light.

It is too late to correct this for the initial release of Pike and Shot Campaigns but we will correct it in the next update.
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fogman
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by fogman » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:48 pm

this is what it shows on my pc. so you can only get the blue stream if you make your scenario on the ipad?
waterways.jpg
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rbodleyscott
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by rbodleyscott » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:03 pm

fogman wrote:this is what it shows on my pc. so you can only get the blue stream if you make your scenario on the ipad?
waterways.jpg
No sorry, I was not clear what you meant. You need to place a Water tile from the base tile set (it does not look like water in the editor because the reflective surface is added later), and then a stream or river etc. overlay tile on top.
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fogman
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by fogman » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:39 am

I need you to confirm or disprove,


if (GetUniversalVar("RoutedSide") == side)
{
killed = losses * 45;
killed /= 100;
wounded = losses - killed;
}
else
{
killed = losses / 4;
wounded = losses / 2;
// Note that this means that victors get some of their "losses" back
}

total_killed += killed;
total_wounded += wounded;

meaning: if the defeated side suffered 100 losses (killed & wounded) then the # of reported killed is 45 and the # of reported wounded is 55.
and if the victorious side suffered 100 losses (killed & wounded) then the # of reported killed is 25 and the # of reported wounded is 50. thus the victorious side gets 25 back.

fogman
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by fogman » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:57 am

survivors = GetAttrib(id, "TotalMen");

if (GetUniversalVar("RoutedSide") == side)
{
if (GetAttrib(id, "MoraleState") > 2)
{
captured_deserted = survivors / 2;
}
else
{
captured_deserted = survivors / 4;
}
}
else
{
if (GetAttrib(id, "MoraleState") > 2)
{
captured_deserted = survivors / 10;
}
}

total_captured_deserted += captured_deserted;

meaning: is 'survivors'
1.the # of total men minus killed/wounded,
2.total men minus killed/wounded/routed,
3.the # of routed?
the /10 seems to apply to the victorious side, which points to 'survivors' being 3.
but if the /2 or /4 apply to the defeated side, it doesn't added up...

rbodleyscott
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by rbodleyscott » Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:58 am

fogman wrote:I need you to confirm or disprove,


if (GetUniversalVar("RoutedSide") == side)
{
killed = losses * 45;
killed /= 100;
wounded = losses - killed;
}
else
{
killed = losses / 4;
wounded = losses / 2;
// Note that this means that victors get some of their "losses" back
}

total_killed += killed;
total_wounded += wounded;

meaning: if the defeated side suffered 100 losses (killed & wounded) then the # of reported killed is 45 and the # of reported wounded is 55.
and if the victorious side suffered 100 losses (killed & wounded) then the # of reported killed is 25 and the # of reported wounded is 50. thus the victorious side gets 25 back.
That is correct, with one exception. The first section applies to a routed side, not a defeated side. So if a side loses because of the time limit, the second section applies, not the first.
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rbodleyscott
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by rbodleyscott » Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:03 am

fogman wrote:survivors = GetAttrib(id, "TotalMen");

if (GetUniversalVar("RoutedSide") == side)
{
if (GetAttrib(id, "MoraleState") > 2)
{
captured_deserted = survivors / 2;
}
else
{
captured_deserted = survivors / 4;
}
}
else
{
if (GetAttrib(id, "MoraleState") > 2)
{
captured_deserted = survivors / 10;
}
}

total_captured_deserted += captured_deserted;

meaning: is 'survivors'
1.the # of total men minus killed/wounded,
2.total men minus killed/wounded/routed,
3.the # of routed?
the /10 seems to apply to the victorious side, which points to 'survivors' being 3.
but if the /2 or /4 apply to the defeated side, it doesn't added up...
survivors = the current # of total men. Which is the value of total men at the start of the battle, minus killed/wounded. Note that the value of total men at the start of the battle is not the BaseAttrib from the Squads file, but the adjusted value after the CustomizeUnits() function is applied at the start of the battle. (This value is returned by the StartingStrength() function).
the /10 seems to apply to the victorious side
Also the defeated side if the game was ended by the time limit. But it only applies to routed units, because of the "if (GetAttrib(id, "MoraleState") > 2)". It is assumed that not all routers will return to the colours, even on the victorious side.
but if the /2 or /4 apply to the defeated side, it doesn't added up..
The routed side, not the defeated side. /2 if the unit is routed, /4 if not.
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fogman
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by fogman » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:14 pm

i'm not clear on why there are 3 cases for captured/deserted.

the side that doesn't rout (which could be both sides): captured_deserted /10
the side that routs: captured_deserted/4 or /2 (I don't see how you determine one or the other divisor)

what applies if both routs?

does the determination of which side wins the scenario (on a 'strategic' level) in case of a theoretical draw has any bearing?

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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by fogman » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:16 pm

can the divisor be a non-integer? (if yes, decimal with comma or dot?)

can the results.bsf be made to apply differently to different scenarios in a campaign?

rbodleyscott
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by rbodleyscott » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:39 pm

fogman wrote:i'm not clear on why there are 3 cases for captured/deserted.

the side that doesn't rout (which could be both sides): captured_deserted /10
the side that routs: captured_deserted/4 or /2 (I don't see how you determine one or the other divisor)
Which divisor is used depends on whether the unit is itself already routing when the army morale cracks. ("MoraleState" > 2)
what applies if both routs?
Looking at the code I think neither side would suffer the routing penalties on reported losses.
does the determination of which side wins the scenario (on a 'strategic' level) in case of a theoretical draw has any bearing?
Not on the reported losses, no.
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rbodleyscott
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by rbodleyscott » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:43 pm

fogman wrote:can the divisor be a non-integer? (if yes, decimal with comma or dot?)
The engine does not support floating point variables or floating point arithmetic in any way. All variables can only hold integers. You have to divide by an integer, and the result will always be rounded down to the nearest integer.

However it is easy to get round this by multiplying the variable by 100 at the start of the series of operations, and then dividing by 100 at the end (which or without an addition to make it round up and down normally).
can the results.bsf be made to apply differently to different scenarios in a campaign?
Not directly.

However, you could create a Universal Variable and assign a different value to it in each scenario script, then branch the logic in Results.BSF according to the value in that Universal Variable.
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fogman
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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by fogman » Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:04 pm

can the program do operations with rationals?

for exemple, intead of,
variable/1.5,

one writes
variable*2/3

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Re: I need to understand these things to make a scenario...

Post by rbodleyscott » Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:16 pm

No, you would need to do the multiplication first.

Variable *= 2;
Variable /= 3;
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