Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Warhammer Open Beta

Moderators: Slitherine Core, BA Moderators, WH40K Armageddon moderators

Kerensky
Content Designer
Content Designer
Posts: 5388
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:12 am

Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by Kerensky » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:19 am

fsx wrote:Please, move a core unit to the VH an you win.
Kerensky wrote:Scenario is too dangerous given enemy composition (multitudes of Skullhamma tanks and Gargants) to allow extended contact and engagement with player's Act1 core force. So this scenario is loaded with many, separate and totally independent triggers that all force the scenario to end before these top end Ork units have any chance to decimate the player's CORE.
Let me put it another way. If the scenario didn't end when you disobeyed your instructions and sent your CORE units were near the victory hex. What would happen? The scenario would continue to play, all those Gargants and Skullhammas and their attendant units would absolutely annihilate your hard earned and well experience core. Do you understand how this is a bad thing we cannot let happen to players while they are seeking enjoyment from our game? :)

Now that this mattered is settled both in trigger configuration and also for lore explanation, I would ask that you please stop sending me private messages calling me back to this thread.

fsx
Warhammer Moderator
Warhammer Moderator
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:47 pm

Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by fsx » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:33 am

Okay, I see.
I can win only with my cores. Without triggering the strong enemies! (I came from the left side!!) - Its a victory against the rules, but okay.

Question(s):

I disband the Titan in turn 1. I will win (tested).

I move my armee. Last turn: the Titan. This Triggers the strong enemies. I could not move my cores away. Many of them will be killed. The Titan will not be attacked. (tested)

What would be, if an enemy moves to the VH? My Titan could not kill such a strong unit. (tested, sometimes the Titan could kill such a unit in 2-3 turns, savegame available)

I played this scenario without my cores. I could win it.
Last edited by fsx on Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fsx
Warhammer Moderator
Warhammer Moderator
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:47 pm

Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by fsx » Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:48 pm

But, I know it after the mission, not before, that I have to sacrifice the Titan.
I need additional knowledge to play the game. Not so nice.

You could add into the evacuation message: evacuate your CORE units .... and try to reach the VH with your Titan.
The message from the sacrifice comes after (?) the scenario.
If a player like me (who dont know W40K) plays the game, he dont know about the sacrifice.

zakblood
Most Active User 2017
Most Active User 2017
Posts: 15407
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:44 pm

Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by zakblood » Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:52 pm

well think how i feel, i have no idea of any of it, Orc's to me come from the misty mountains and camp out around mount doom under the stars, not flying around it and using cannons and tanks :shock: :roll: :wink:

fsx
Warhammer Moderator
Warhammer Moderator
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:47 pm

Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by fsx » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:26 pm

Hallo Kerensky!

I hope, you are not angry at me.
Please, read this post and it would be nice, if you would answer my questions at the end of this post. Also after release, if you wish.


Summary

Facts:
* The mayor issue I saw in this scenario (as I wrote the posts) is not so big.
* I wrote very emotional, because I tought, Slitherine will have much problems with this scenario if it is in release.
* I mixed knowledge from playing the game and using the editor.
* I know nothing about the background of WH40K.
* I did not read the sequences between the scenarios, only the in-scenario messages.

At the end of this post, I have some (minor) issues and questions about it.


My thoughts as I was playing this scenario:

I read the starting message and mission objective.
As I moved the Titan near VH the message "evacuate" comes.
I tought: I made a mistake and I broke the order. All units back! Also my Titan.
I would never win this scenario in this way.
I dont know that I have to sacrifice the Titan. I dont know the WH40K story and the sequences after that scenario.

Reload game before the Titan moved.
Same happens again.

Reload game before the Titan moved.
Move the cores to the VH. Nothing happens. (I had luck, because my main forces came from left down part of the map)
Moved a core unit to VH - victory
--> I think: The victory conditions are wrong

Until now I did not used the Editor.


My suggestion:

* Add to the "evacuate" message: The Titan has to capture the VH. Also if its dies. Evacuate only your core units.
Perhaps add a pic of the Titan-commander and let him "speak": Evacuate all forces! I will go ahead into the bulk of enemies (to the victory Hex) and destroy as many I could. Dont be worry about me. Over and out.
(My english is very poor. I hope you understand what I mean.)


My questions:

1. Do you expect, that all players know the WH40K story? (ironic mode: If yes, please add this at the system minimum requirements!)
2. Would not be the mofified message better explain the story (for all players dont know WH40K story)?
3. Would not a loss the better result of the scenario, if the players disobey the rules?
4. Is it not bad for the motivation of the player, that the player lose some (many) of their core units if they moved the Titan as last unit and he could not evacuate the core Units, because they moved this turn?

A. very minor issue (Who will think so?): Winning the scenario by disbanding the Titan
B. very minor issue (Who will think so?): Winning the scenario by only using the Titan (no cores)

thepuffin
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:53 pm

Re: Scenario Obedience to Orders - victory conditions

Post by thepuffin » Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:29 am

I'm not sure I agree with the rationale here. If the mission objective says "don't move your troops near the victory hex" and I do, and then strong orks table my forces, I'm going to think "awesome! there's actually a reason to follow orders". If I'm able to ignore the titan and simply move a normal unit onto the victory hex and nothing bad happens, and the mission succeeds anyway, I'm going to think "hmm, this seems buggy, I didn't even move my titan to the place it was supposed to go - how did I win?".

Sometimes, the player needs to get beaten up to learn from his/her mistakes!

Regardless, the fact that you can win this mission by moving a unit that is not the Aux Titan onto the victory hex is clearly a bug.

Post Reply

Return to “Warhammer Open Beta”