UNDO command and other FoG2 features in P&S

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Cronos09
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by Cronos09 »

Thanks, Happy New Year's Eve!

After all, almost any function can be improved if there is any doubt about its use. For example, disabling the UNDO command for all units within an enemy arc of fire.
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by Athos1660 »

Interesting.

May I ask you why you like UNDO in P&S ?

As for me, above all, it allows me to know whether I'll be able to turn after my move to a given square.

For example, in this case...

Image

... the answer is... No :

Image

Ooops !!

If I had an on-screen indication of this before I move (or if I knew the rules better or if I had a kind of detailed diagram), I think I wouldn't need the UNDO feature.

Image
Cronos09
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by Cronos09 »

Happy New Year!

Undo command in P&S helped me to understand in detail the turn of light units after their movements. You can see these patterns here viewtopic.php?f=299&t=101880#p886003. Now I can play without this command.
Athos1660
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by Athos1660 »

... meaning that Undo could be replaced with an in-game indication of the turning possibilities after movement in the same way you did it on your pics (or another) ? And thus opportunity fire wouldn't need to be changed or removed from the game ?

I will read in depth your thread as it is very interesting ! I must admit I skimmed through it as... I use Undo (and am a bit lazy).

The yellow/blue points are nice. I intended to make something quite similar to compare the effectiveness and cost of medium and heavy artillery depending on their shooting range and the arc of fire. The actual difference seems much bigger than what suggests their difference in shooting range in straight line.
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by Cronos09 »

Athos1660 wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:14 am ... meaning that Undo could be replaced with an in-game indication of the turning possibilities after movement in the same way you did it on your pics (or another) ? ...
Probably, it can be done. There would be time and desire to resolve issues arising along the way.
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by Athos1660 »

...meaning lots of thinking, ressources, dev. time...

And speaking of a future game of the FoGII/P&S series, no Undo would also mean lots of complaints/bad reviews from the Steam players...

So Undo + no opportunity fire = the easiest and best way ?
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by Cronos09 »

I do not know. I am not an economist.
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by Athos1660 »

Ah, Ah, Ah ! Good answer :-)

However, opportunity contributes much to the ambiance of P&S (smoke, noise, surprise, casualties).
Cronos09
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by Cronos09 »

Athos1660 wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:13 pm Ah, Ah, Ah ! Good answer :-)
Good answer to a good question.
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by gjoykamitake »

Can Sengoku Jidai also have this UNDO command mod?
Cronos09
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by Cronos09 »

gjoykamitake wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:14 am Can Sengoku Jidai also have this UNDO command mod?
I can do it. But this will add lags to SJ as in the case of using this mod together with the General mod in P&S.
Therefore, it is better to use this mod without generals.
A small update - all the best (I hope) from FoG2 into P&S:
1) 'Push back', 'Fight Melee', 'Immediate Score' and 'Undo' options;
2) the mod includes fixes for the flaws of the original P&S based on FoG2 scripts:
a) charging enemy units that are beyond 45 degrees of straight ahead at the start of the move after a turn,
b) blocking of 2 units with ZoCs of each other when they are separated by two other units in close combat;
3) 'Remove evader casualties' option;
4) Bows, crossbows, slings can shoot overhead from higher ground.
The link and installation description - on the next page (my post of 18.04.2022)
Last edited by Cronos09 on Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:24 am, edited 3 times in total.
Cronos09
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by Cronos09 »

A couple of interesting notes when using FoG2 features in P&S:
1) in P&S we have 2 close combat phase when charging an enemy unit - the impact and melee phases during the same turn. In FoG2 we have only one of them - either impact phase or melee one during the same turn. Adding 'Fight Melee' option makes P&S CC like in FoG2;
2) after adding 'Immediate/Dynamic Score' I saw a strange change of the score during the game. In P&S we have one function PercentRemaining(side) responsible for the game score (it works at the start of each turn), in FoG2 - two such functions PercentRemaining(side) and DisplayPercentRemaining(side) (it works after an unit routing or rally). It turned out that these functions count the remaining units in different ways, and from experience I realized that this happens after the destruction of artillery: PercentRemaining(side) gives twice as much loss as DisplayPercentRemaining(side). The reason of this is the use of carried units in P&S. PercentRemaining(side) takes into account the destruction of the main unit and the carried one, DisplayPercentRemaining(side) only takes into account the destruction of the main unit. These two functions work the same way in FoG2, but there are not carried units there.
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by Cronos09 »

Another useful FoG2 option in P&S - Turn and Shoot:
Image
When hovering over an enemy unit, both options are called "Shoot" (the rest of the information corresponds to 2 options "Shoot" and "Turn and Shoot"), but when selecting the "Turn and Shoot" icon, the name of the option is correct:
Image
I also added GetFragmentedBaseAP() function which does not take base AP for Fragmented unit below 6 AP unless base AP is less than 6.
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by Cronos09 »

Interesting suggestions of SnuggleBunnies:
SnuggleBunnies wrote:Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:09 pm Question before we begin, well comment and a question -

I prefer Pike and Shot's automatic melee adjudication, makes it harder to figure out exactly what to do, feels more realistic.

That said, if the approach of the mod is to replicate fog behavior, perhaps infantry pursuit should be toned down? Limited to Warriors and non-keil Raw, or maybe just warriors?

There's also a bug that I believe you could easily fix - currently, cavalry don't get the +100 vs Unprotected Foot in Open vs the Mobs, which they should.
1) Fog2 'Fight melee' option removes the simultaneous effect of the 2 CC phases (Impact and Melee) during one turn (I think it's more correct within the game rules) and complements FoG2 option of 'Immediate/Dynamic score' in case of routing of one of the fighting units.

2) Ok. I have taken FoG2 pursuit scripts: infantry who are neither Warriors nor Raw will not pursue. Keil never pursuits.

3) At first I did not see a mistake in the P&S scripts about mounted charging the Mobs:

Code: Select all

			if ((IsMounted(me) == 1) && (IsCombatInOpen(me, enemy) == 1))
				{
					if ((IsUnitSquadType(enemy, "Light_Foot") == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(enemy, "Dragoons") == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(enemy, "Warriors") == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(me, "Mob") == 1))
						{
							increment = 100;
						}
And only after careful consideration of the condition, I saw that in the case of the Mob type, it says "me" instead of "enemy". I have fixed it.

Another interesting FoG2 features - a unit has not ZOC when in close combat. It makes melee faster.
P&S situation after charging (a flank charge can only be done in a turn - the turn after next one):
Image
Fog2 situation after charging (a flank charge can be done next turn):
Image
It would be ideal to do this only for cavalry units (they lose ZoC when in close combat) since cavalry melee is more fleeting than infantry one.
SnuggleBunnies
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by SnuggleBunnies »

This looks good. When it's ready with these changes I'd be happy to download and test them out in MP
SnuggleBunny's Field of Glory II / Medieval / Pike and Shot / Sengoku Jidai MP Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjUQy6dEqR53NwoGgjxixLg
Cronos09
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by Cronos09 »

Ok, Jack. If no one else is willing to say out, how do we proceed with my proposal: remove ZOC for all units (or just for the cavalry) when they are in close combat? Or leave the original P&S situation?
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by SnuggleBunnies »

Cronos09 wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 2:41 pm Ok, Jack. If no one else is willing to say out, how do we proceed with my proposal: remove ZOC for all units (or just for the cavalry) when they are in close combat? Or leave the original P&S situation?
I'm actually fine with the original situation, setting up flanks should be hard, and that slows it down
SnuggleBunny's Field of Glory II / Medieval / Pike and Shot / Sengoku Jidai MP Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjUQy6dEqR53NwoGgjxixLg
Cronos09
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by Cronos09 »

I left the original P&S situation with ZoC of units in close combat.
The link of 06.04.2022 is updated with all the changes mentioned above.
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by SnuggleBunnies »

Why can crossbow shoot overhead but not arquebus?
SnuggleBunny's Field of Glory II / Medieval / Pike and Shot / Sengoku Jidai MP Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjUQy6dEqR53NwoGgjxixLg
Cronos09
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Re: UNDO command in P&S

Post by Cronos09 »

SnuggleBunnies wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 4:41 pm Why can crossbow shoot overhead but not arquebus?
A good question. Because there is no arquebus in FoG2 :)
I can disable crossbow overhead shooting.
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