General Mod

[Cronos09]

I can add a script of losing generals as a result of shooting (since it is impossible to kill/wound a general with shooting arms in SJ and Fog2):
1) according to the rules of SG and FoG2 (for C-in-C - cohesion test of units within 2 squares/tiles from the general unit)

2) I set the conditions for panic within the same limits with a high probability after losing C-in-C

[Athos1660]

Richard's reasons for not having implementing this feature were convincing, that is iirc that it would lead to players focusing several units' shooting on the enemy general's unit until his death which wouldn't be fun nor historical.

Of course that does not mean you shouldn't test it if you like it.

[Cronos09]

I personally don't see any particularly important reason not to implement this feature. Firstly, we can make the probability of the general's death from shooting low, and secondly, you can move him every turn to a less shot unit. About the panic I made it for a fun.

[Athos1660]

Ok !
Excuse me, I thought you asked a question (whether or not you should implement it)
Nice to see that you keep on modding PS

[Paul59]

I personally don't see any particularly important reason not to implement this feature. Firstly, we can make the probability of the general's death from shooting low, and secondly, you can move him every turn to a less shot unit. About the panic I made it for a fun.

I think the issue was that it would disadvantage the AI. A player can concentrate his shooting against the AI's general in an attempt to kill him, but the AI would never do the same against the player.

[rbodleyscott]

I personally don't see any particularly important reason not to implement this feature. Firstly, we can make the probability of the general's death from shooting low, and secondly, you can move him every turn to a less shot unit. About the panic I made it for a fun.

I think the issue was that it would disadvantage the AI. A player can concentrate his shooting against the AI's general in an attempt to kill him, but the AI would never do the same against the player.

Indeed. The AI is too honourable for that.

[Cronos09]

Athos, I meant which option do you like better
Paul, I think it could be scripted. But of course this is more suitable for multiplayer.

[Athos1660]

I think that I prefer it when SnuggleBunnies is not skeptical and Generals are not targets.

[Cronos09]

I see that the number of views of the topic is constantly increasing, so I am updating the information on this mod a little.

At the moment, I want to finally decide on the rules for generals in the mod using TYW MP module as an example. Then I will remake the other modules to correspond these rules. Thanks to Gribol, Nosy_Rat, SnuggleBunnies and Ahuyton for their help in testing this module. Some conclusions and changes based on testing:
1) using the script for losing generals as a result of shooting does not change the MP gameplay. For several parties, I saw 2 losses of generals, moreover, from artillery fire. Although the probability of generals loss from musket fire is higher in my script

Code: Select all

	if (GetAttrib(unit, "General") > -1)
		{

					if (((IsFoot(me) == 1) && (IsFoot(unit) == 1)) || ((IsFoot(me) == 1) && (IsMounted(unit) == 1)))
						{
							odds = 50;							
						}
					else
						{
							odds = 75;							
						}

In this script lower odds correspond to higher probability of the event.
2) adding FoG2 features to the general mod introduces significant lags into the game (especially on large maps with many units) that annoy players. In addition, when using 'Undo command' in the mod, a bug appears, the cause of which I cannot yet determine. Therefore, of all FoG2 features, I will most likely add only 'Immediate score' to the mod ('Capture of artillery' will also be present with small changes).
3) the mod includes fixes for the flaws of the original PS based on FoG2 scripts:
a) charging enemy units that are beyond 45 degrees of straight ahead at the start of the move after a turn
b) blocking of 2 units with ZoCs of each other when they are separated by two other units in close combat

[Cronos09]

A small change in the conditions of "Capturing artillery':
an infantry unit stops supporting/protecting a friendly artillery unit if the infantry is in melee


All the conditions of 'Capturing an enemy artillery' (artillery guns are remained on the battlefield during a whole match):
1) only non-light infantry can capture artillery guns as a result of its direct charge. Morale state of the artillery is equal to the infantry unit;
2) cavalry and light infantry charges make gunners run away (guns remain on the battlefield). An infantry unit arrives and captures the battery with a repeat charge;
3) Shooting from the distance makes gunners run away too. If a friendly unit (not fragmented, not in melee and not pursuing) is within 1 square of the battery, it regains control of the artillery guns next turn. Morale state of the artillery is equal to the unit;
4) If a friendly unit (not fragmented, not in melee and not pursuing) is in one of 5 tiles/squares in the front and on the sides of the artillery unit a direct charge of the artillery is impossible because of 'Side support'.

[Athos1660]

Hello Cronos
Hoping you're very well

A small change in the conditions of "Capturing artillery':
an infantry unit stops supporting/protecting a friendly artillery unit if the infantry is in melee

Are you sure ? Shouldn't the protection work like that of the Commanded shot (ie as long as the friendly protector is unbroken) ?
Isn't it as if the protected infantry unit and the protecting friendly infantry were on the same tile ?
Isn't it what actually makes the infantry protective, being in melee to defend the arty ?
Shouldn't the second enemy infantry attack the friendly infantry first ?

I know : it's none of my business

Keep up the good work

On a side note, just wondering : are the protected guns able to shoot when the protecting infantry is in melee ?

[Cronos09]

Hello, Athos!

Are you sure ?

Of cause, I am not sure
I like the initial system of artillery protecting more. But my opponents in MP matches did not like it. I have played with this feature with Gribol since August and he constantly criticizes it. And Nosy_Rat has supported him in this matter recently So I took into account their wishes and made the change.

Shouldn't the second enemy infantry attack the friendly infantry first ?

Is this question about my screenshots? Everything is in accordance with the changed rules there: there were two charges and as a result of the second charge, the infantry retreated from the support zone.
In the firing of guns nothing changed.

[Athos1660]

Never listen to the players (kidding).
In your current mod, when the protecting infantry is in melee, is the artillery still able to shoot at A or is it said to be hidden behind the infantry (above on the pic) ?

(btw my comment is related to how I for one see rear support, not to how your mod actually works, so I may be absolutely wrong. )

Is this question about my screenshots?

All the following sentences are just different ways to express the same idea :

Shouldn't the protection work like that of the Commanded shot (ie as long as the friendly protector is unbroken) ?
Isn't it as if the protected infantry unit and the protecting friendly infantry were on the same tile ?
Isn't it what actually makes the infantry protective, being in melee to defend the arty ?
Shouldn't the second enemy infantry attack the friendly infantry first ?

btw, by "second enemy infantry" I meant A and by "the friendly infantry" I meant the unit that is in melee on the screenshot.

[Cronos09]

Athos, if you were my opponent in MP games I would not change these rules

In your current mod, when the protecting infantry is in melee, is the artillery still able to shoot at A or is it said to be hidden behind the infantry (above on the pic) ?

As I wrote before, since January nothing has changed in artillery fire - the artillery can shoot.

[Athos1660]

^This is the feature you should change, not the protection by the infantry. When the protecting infantry is in melee, as long as it is unbroken, the arty should be protected. No enemy can charge it. But the arty can't shoot either, as the gunners left their guns and hid behind the infantry in melee. When the friendly infantry break (along with the gunners), the enemy are free to capture the guns. 2 enemy infantry vs 1 friendly protecting infantry and 1 arty = 2 enemy infantry vs 1 friendly infantry.

imho

3 situations :
- When arty is unprotected, it can always shoot (as long it is not charged).
- When arty is protected and protecting infantry is not in melee, it can shoot.
- When arty is protected and protecting infantry is in melee, it can't shoot (as the gunners are not behind their guns anymore).

[Cronos09]

No, I should not. We will play the TYW MP module v5 with 'Artillery capturing' using the rules that wrote in my post on 05.11 (as soon as I decide about Timariot Sipahis evading). If you wish you can add the TYW SP module with the rules your like. Forbiddance of shooting is scripted in FUNCTION CHECK_Unit_Shoot(me, unit, tilex, tiley, reaction, doNotSetIcons) in Shooting.BSF

[Cronos09]

I suggest to try a new concept for Timariot Sipahis evading in MP matches - limited number of evade (eg. 2 for Medium, 3 for Large battles during one turn), which the player assigns with a special button 'Evade'. On each following turn the player can assign evasion for different Timariot Sipahis units depending on the game situation. And the previous selection will be reset. In order not to overload the interface, this button will appear when the unit (Timariot Sipahis) is within 4 tiles of enemy units.

In this example the evasion is chosen for units 'A' and 'C'. After this choice a record 'Can evade' appears in the unit info panel. The opponent does not see it. I also added FoG2 RemoveEvaderCasualties function. The result

[Cronos09]

A description of the General mod features based on SJ and FoG2 manuals (the ones which first introduced in the mod are in bold):
GENERAL MOD
At the start of the battle, your army is divided into commands. In skirmishes and campaigns, all non-light commands have their own general. In historical scenarios, the allocation of generals will be part of the scenario design.
A general unit provides + 50 Elan for all units within 2 tiles from it. It is determined at the start of the player’s turn.
You can only switch units from one command to another during the deployment phase (if there is one). Note that a unit with a general cannot switch commands without moving the general to another unit of the original command first.
When you select a unit, the commanding general and the other units in his command are highlighted.
When you select a general’s unit, tiles within his command range are highlighted.
1. COMMAND RANGE
Units that are out of command range of a general in line of command have reduced command control. They lose the free 45 degree turn that is allowed to troops that are in command range. The exception is that they can move at least one square even if this does involve a turn of 45 degrees.
Command range is determined at the start of the player’s turn. Troops that are in command range at that time will be deemed to be in command range until the player’s next turn, unless the general from whom they were taking command control is disabled. Troops that are out of command range at the start of the turn will remain out of command range until the player’s next turn, even if the general moves into range before that.
Units that are in command range this turn have white facing indicators, units that are out of command range have dark facing indicators (the latter ones also have “Reduced CC” displayed in their information panel at the bottom of the screen).
Command range varies with the command ability of the general and the type of the scenario. You can see the command range for each of your generals by selecting his unit (CR in the info panel). “Troop Commanders” have a command range of 3 (Small, Medium battles), 4 (Large, Very Large battles) and 6 squares in Historical scenarios, “Field Commanders” 6 (Small, Medium battles) and 8 squares (Large, Very Large and Historical battles) and “Great Commanders” 9 (Small, Medium battles) and 12 squares (Large, Very Large and Historical battles).
Generals have no command range when in close combat, pursuing or routing, so if any of these apply at the start of the player’s turn, their units will have reduced command control unless there is another general in line of command within command range.
2. GENERALS IN CLOSE COMBAT
A general whose unit is in close combat is deemed to be fighting in that combat. He adds a +1 modifier on Cohesion Tests for friendly units within (command range / 4) squares while he is in close combat (but not otherwise). However, he is at risk of being killed or wounded in the combat. This is much more likely to occur if his unit loses the combat. A general can also be killed or wounded as a result of enemi's shooting.
If a general is killed or wounded, all friendly units within 1 square if the general was a sub-general, or 2 squares if the general was a C-in-C must take a Cohesion Test. If a general is incapacitated in a campaign game, he may or may not survive to fight again later in the campaign.
3. MOVING GENERALS
A sub-general can move once in a turn to another unit of his command that is within his Command range (even if the general’s unit has already
moved this turn). A C-in-C can also move to a unit of one of his sub-generals’ commands.
Generals cannot move from a unit that is in close combat or pursuing, and cannot move to join an artillery unit.
4. RALLING UNITS
Disrupted, Fragmented or Routed units with a general tests (Cohesion test) every time. (Units without a general have a much lower chance of testing).
Generals can therefore be used to greatly increase the chance of unsteady troops rallying.

[Cronos09]

The last part of the general mod - LIMITED AMMO MOD:
I made different ammunition for infantry (9 turns), rifle cavalry (6 turns) and light rifle cavalry (8 turns). For artillery ammunition remained unlimited. Display in the info panel of the unit (like in FoG2): for player's units - the number of remaining turns, when they can fire at full effect, for units of AI - if there is any ammo Ammo: not low, if ammunition is over Ammo: low. After the exhaustion of ammunition, the unit can shoot at a half effect (like in FoG2).
Bows, crossbows and slings can shoot overhead from higher ground - like in FoG2.

[Cronos09]

TYW MP module with generals (full historical names, without German Protestant 1639-1648 and Weimarian 1635-1643 sides, and 4 historical battles - 1st Breitenfeld, Lutzen, Wittstock and Rocroi) https://yadi.sk/d/CkmNOalVPN6f9w
For convenience the description of the module features is contained in the file MOD_FEATURES.txt
Installation: The archive should be unzipped at ...\Documents\My Games\PSCAMP\MULTIPLAYER\. You will get MPThirtyYearsWar_Gen_v2 folder there. In the game the module is called Thirty Years War with generals v2.
If someone wants to play the module, please, write to me. I am always ready to play it.