Unit issues 6.1.8

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GabeKnight
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by GabeKnight » Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:59 am

Horst wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:18 pm
About the AI's x-ray vision: it's more apparent with aircraft than land units.
That's true, noticed it myself. But the AI still does not know the type of the unit, I think (more like radar). It happened often that one enemy fighter flew into "visual range" of my planes, but not into attack range. And only then the rest of the enemy fighters began to chose its targets and attack my planes. At least that's my reasoning for this behaviour. But how else to execute the simple "Seek&Destoy" AI team order - as it usually has the range of "999" :!: hexes preset. Maybe that causes the "cheating" of the AI....(?)
Horst wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:18 pm
I created that last year where you can observe the AI moving a single unit to the player flag, but only if you away from your own flag.
Okay now, that's something I noticed, too... :)

BUT: I presume that the AI can, like the player, see movement of units into and out of camouflaged (high cover) locations if LOS is present. Usually you can not tell what unit was moved, but if you observe the AI turn carefully, you can definitely see the units moving in or ouf of camouflage (of course only if the neighboring hexes don't provide cover, too).
Additionally, as a player, you can spot enemy arty positions in the FOW when they fire and use your "indirect" fire trait to bombard them back. The AI can't do that.

However, I really don't know how to explain your little cheater scen. :lol:

Horst
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by Horst » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:42 pm

Eh, could units always move past bunkers? Didn't they have a zone-of-control before the Sandstorm DLC? This kind of defeats the purpose of them to stop assaults. My best fighter was just smashed in the hangar by an infantry that wriggled through two bunkers of mine.

PS: Crap no, bunkers still blocked movement in 5.3.0. What the heck was changed?

PPS: Maybe it's related to the change in 6.1.8: Units no longer cause ZoC on hexes they cannot enter due to their terrain type or the
presence of escarpments.
As defensive structures can't move, they possibly lost their ZoC this way.

PPPS: A partial fix is to give the static-chassis movement points.
The only issue left is that all camouflaged units, like the MG-Nest but also commandos or snipers also provide no ZoC per se.
Doesn't look like the structures learned to retreat by this, but let's see. This issue really needs a hardcoded fix.

PPPPS: I've created a vanilla chassis.csv file that partially fixes the issue explained above and also added the wall column that aircraft can fly over the Chinese wall again. Use this file for a vanilla mod or replace the original one if you dare. The file's home is in Content\Data.
Attachments
chassis.7z
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terminator
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by terminator » Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:39 pm

Horst wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:42 pm
Eh, could units always move past bunkers? Didn't they have a zone-of-control before the Sandstorm DLC? This kind of defeats the purpose of them to stop assaults. My best fighter was just smashed in the hangar by an infantry that wriggled through two bunkers of mine.
PS: Crap no, bunkers still blocked movement in 5.3.0. What the heck was changed?
I do not remember how it was before but actually Bunkers do not have Zone-of-Control :(

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Asap
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by Asap » Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:47 pm

terminator wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:39 pm
I do not remember how it was before but actually Bunkers do not have Zone-of-Control :(
I want the old game rules back. I want to play OoB as it was when Burma Road came out. :(
"The sun is new each day" Heraclitus

Horst
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by Horst » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:44 am

I can imagine that most players didn’t notice this ZoC-bug as they have played through Sandstorm with v6.1.7 if this issue is actually related to the v6.1.8 change I’ve mentioned in my previous post.

Unfortunately, there is one issue with my chassis.csv: mines can attack!
To fix that, I had to set the AP (action point) value of mines to 0, but this can only be done in the units.csv file. I remember vanilla campaigns only use neutral mines, so that shouldn’t matter there. I’ve noticed it during playing the Desert Rats custom-campaign that uses faction-mines.
You see, even fixes have consequences that aren’t immediately apparent. I hope this can be fixed more elegantly in the ZoC-code somehow, as all faction structures like oil pumps would also receive a ZoC if you don’t add a noZOC trait to them.
Alright, I’m quiet again as no one could follow me anyway. :D

GabeKnight
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by GabeKnight » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:41 am

Horst wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:44 am
I can imagine that most players didn’t notice this ZoC-bug as they have played through Sandstorm with v6.1.7 if this issue is actually related to the v6.1.8 change I’ve mentioned in my previous post.

Unfortunately, there is one issue with my chassis.csv: mines can attack!
To fix that, I had to set the AP (action point) value of mines to 0, but this can only be done in the units.csv file. I remember vanilla campaigns only use neutral mines, so that shouldn’t matter there. I’ve noticed it during playing the Desert Rats custom-campaign that uses faction-mines.
You see, even fixes have consequences that aren’t immediately apparent. I hope this can be fixed more elegantly in the ZoC-code somehow, as all faction structures like oil pumps would also receive a ZoC if you don’t add a noZOC trait to them.
Alright, I’m quiet again as no one could follow me anyway. :D
I can :wink:
And you're right. Thanks for pointing that out. I've noticed some strange behaviour myself, but I've attributed it to the general changes with the speed/movement definitions.
(why do pumps, radars, fuel depots need APs anyway?)

Bunkers with no ZOC, no way! That should break a whole of scens in WinterWar and BurmaRoad, at least!

PS: I think you should revise your chassis.csv, as even bunkers and such should not have a ZOC with the new ridge/escarpment mechanic. :?:
PPS: Actually testing with the editor right now, I don't think that radar stations, pumps, hangars, depots should have a ZOC really. Is it possible to add a new movement type, like "staticZOC" and assign it to the units in question? I'll try that.

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as it should be
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GabeKnight
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by GabeKnight » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:09 pm

@Horst

Now here's something interesting: If there's even one ridge/escarpment terrain on the map present, your whole chassis fix will not work anymore and all static movement type units have no ZOC again... :shock:

No fix without consequence...

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Horst
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by Horst » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:31 pm

It's possible to move further against zoc with high speed and roads.
I haven't fully tested this chassis.csv in vanilla, but if someone likes to improve it further then just go ahead and use my file as template.
Single unit stat bugs are often not that critical, but a whole Red Army racing past the Mannerheim Line in Winter War DLC should be. :D
While letting enemy units move past camouflaged commandos and snipers (or night-fighters) can be advantageous sometimes, hidden MG-nests should also always hinder enemy movement. Too bad, this can't be fixed without dropping camo as it seems.
I leave getting smart of this bug to someone who gets paid for it. :wink:

PS: Sigh, yes, correct about placing escarpments anywhere on a map. Luckily, this only affects desert maps. Maybe I figure something out, maybe not. :roll:

GabeKnight
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by GabeKnight » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:50 pm

Horst wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:31 pm
I leave getting smart of this bug to someone who gets paid for it. :wink:

PS: Sigh, yes, correct about placing escarpments anywhere on a map. Luckily, this only affects desert maps. Maybe I figure something out, maybe not. :roll:
And I just finished Panzerkrieg and was about to start Sandstorm (finally for the first time, so to say) and now this...there's ridges all over! :evil:
Damn, back to BattleTech...

Horst
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by Horst » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:12 pm

I've thought about adding "Escarpment" to the terrain.csv, similar like the "Wall", but that didn't help either. As long as custom-mappers won't start placing ridges everywhere, my rubbish fix works at least with older custom-content and original campaigns.

Hello official hotfix, where are you? :P

terminator
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by terminator » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:52 am

I wanted to continue a scenario Soviet side in January, 1945.
It is surprising being still able to buy these 3 types of tanks at this moment : T-28 C, BT-7 and T-60.

T-28 :
- Produced 1932-41
- In service : 1933-45

BT-7 :
- Produced 1935-40
- In service : 1935-45

T-60 :
- Produced 1941-42
- In service : 1941-45

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Horst
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by Horst » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:01 pm

Holy bug spawn!
By removing the action point from mines, they can't ambush enemy units anymore...
So in order to semi-fix the ZOC of bunkers, you have to create a new (immobile/static) chassis type for the mines.

Will this ever end? :cry:

Horst
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by Horst » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:30 pm

Remember our old ugly friend here on the upper left corner? The Flying Prediction!
It should be quickly reproducible by this scenario: select the AA and then hover the cursor over a transport icon next to the mines.
The Flying Prediction.jpg
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Last edited by Horst on Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:36 pm, edited 5 times in total.

GabeKnight
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by GabeKnight » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:47 pm

Horst wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:30 pm
Remember our old ugly friend here on the upper left corner? The Flying Prediction!
:D Yeah, you'll always get it if using the right mouse button (holding it down) for scrolling. I got used to it, to be honest.... :?
(and if you watch closely, it's on many of the "victory" after-mission screenshots in the top-left corner... )

Admiral_Horthy
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:08 pm

Hi Guys,

Checked MG flashes anim and it is faulty for stock units as well. I though I messed it up but no.

So, MG Flashes anim appears as if it was under the vehicle. if the effect should be above the tank completely, it is invisible. What happened? Again it is present on stock units as well... but can anyone reproduce this?

GabeKnight
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by GabeKnight » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:29 pm

Admiral_Horthy wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:08 pm
Hi Guys,

Checked MG flashes anim and it is faulty for stock units as well. I though I messed it up but no.

So, MG Flashes anim appears as if it was under the vehicle. if the effect should be above the tank completely, it is invisible. What happened? Again it is present on stock units as well... but can anyone reproduce this?
While testing them, I've noticed something strange with the stock firing sequences of models with the "Flakvierling" MG. I'm not sure what it was anymore, it just looked "half-baked" (if I may quote myself from my mod-thread) then - and definitely not as it should with four distinct weapon points present.

Admiral_Horthy
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:59 am

That wasn't an issue since Ive redone that :mrgreen: But otherwise true

terminator
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by terminator » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:33 am

GabeKnight wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:29 pm
While testing them, I've noticed something strange with the stock firing sequences of models with the "Flakvierling" MG. I'm not sure what it was anymore, it just looked "half-baked" (if I may quote myself from my mod-thread) then - and definitely not as it should with four distinct weapon points present.
I have the same impression. I do not think that it is only enough to modify the file "effectSequences.txt" :

FlakQuad20mm.png
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GabeKnight
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by GabeKnight » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:07 am

terminator wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:33 am
I have the same impression. I do not think that it is only enough to modify the file "effectSequences.txt" :
Actually it may be. I did not see the whole matter through then, just noticed something was off but didn't check the corresponding files or tried to fix it myself. :oops:

Now, as I see the firing sequence, all that's probably necessarry would be to include "MG_Flashes 2 and 3" to correct it.

terminator
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Re: Unit issues 6.1.8

Post by terminator » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:51 pm

The "normal" effect Sequences (MG_Flashes 0 & 1) :

Screenshot 631.png
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The moded effect Sequences (MG_flashes 0,1,2 & 3) :

Screenshot 623.png
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PS : The difference is not aslo obvious during the game because it is very fast :|
If we zoom and we pay attention, we notice the difference.
I would say in conclusion that there is a slight improvement.
I am going to test it on another unit which possesses the same effect Sequences but it is a top secret project :wink:

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