WinterWar, improvement suggestions

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GabeKnight
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Re: WinterWar, improvement suggestions

Post by GabeKnight » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:04 pm

terminator wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:34 pm
Too many constraints for so much effort, it’s like some toys that work with batteries but batteries are not supplied with :(

So you need 4 artillery units to receive another artillery unit but what are we gonna do with all these artillery units :?:
:lol: :lol: good one... :lol:

But seriously, there's no such thing as "too many" artillery units! :wink:

Horst
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Re: WinterWar, improvement suggestions

Post by Horst » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:13 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:04 pm
But seriously, there's no such thing as "too many" artillery units! :wink:
Indeed! In Endsieg, I was often using only two Heavy Inf units with the rest tanks and TDs to steamroll everything, covered by a dozen of artillery units. That got really boring after a while. :twisted:
I blame it to the WSS double-CP bug that my run was too easy.

uran21
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Re: WinterWar, improvement suggestions

Post by uran21 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:55 pm

The way how artillery worked in the game was indeed different but now I do not remember when the last major change occurred. But still, this type of objective is not without problems for other reasons. As noted it is a paradox how objective is harder on lower difficulties and easier on higher difficulties. It also directs the play in a negative way, for example in a purely tactical sense I would like to bomb a tank but because this would not lead to a kill increase my alternative is to bomb some other unit which plays no role for that particular tactical situation. It is like artillery units are fighting their own war disconnected from other troops.

I did make some changes to WW but not all I wanted because of my wrong understanding of how the patch would be released last week. I cannot confirm were the files integrated to the game so I will not share a log of changes for now to avoid any potential confusions in the future. Let's just wait and see. If you notice something new to address please point my attention to it.

CoolDTA
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Re: WinterWar, improvement suggestions

Post by CoolDTA » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:58 pm

GabeKnight wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:04 pm
terminator wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:34 pm
Too many constraints for so much effort, it’s like some toys that work with batteries but batteries are not supplied with :(

So you need 4 artillery units to receive another artillery unit but what are we gonna do with all these artillery units :?:
:lol: :lol: good one... :lol:

But seriously, there's no such thing as "too many" artillery units! :wink:
Hear, hear! :D

Also some players (like me) may suffer from the "completionist syndrome" making it impossible not to try to achieve even the silliest objectives. :(

What Horst said is true: this sec obj was easier to achieve when the Winter War DLC was released, but it is still quite manageable like Gabe pointed out. The transport should naturally be there. Hopefully this will be fixed.

Horst
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Re: WinterWar, improvement suggestions

Post by Horst » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:08 pm

Maybe reduce the damage from 40 to 30, so it's easier for players with only 3 artillery units deployed.

GabeKnight
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Re: WinterWar, improvement suggestions

Post by GabeKnight » Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:02 pm

uran21 wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:55 pm
It also directs the play in a negative way, for example in a purely tactical sense I would like to bomb a tank but because this would not lead to a kill increase my alternative is to bomb some other unit which plays no role for that particular tactical situation. It is like artillery units are fighting their own war disconnected from other troops.
That's true in the "usual" difficulties. But still, it is a secondary objective. You don't have to do it. And if you want the reward or consider yourself a "completionist", then yeah, you'll have to use your arty units less efficiently in battle and going after the high damage only. I wouldn't change that.

But it may be a good idea to change the objective for the lower (1 or 2) difficulties like Horst suggested.

terminator
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Re: WinterWar, improvement suggestions

Post by terminator » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:45 am

Maybe a solution would be to disable this secondary objective when playing with low or medium difficulty (Check Difficulty Condition). After all, there is another bonus unit in this scenario, this one accessible.

terminator
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Re: WinterWar, improvement suggestions

Post by terminator » Fri May 03, 2019 8:01 pm

Someri (mission 9) :

The Secondary objective "Don't lose Majakka" will never be validated :

Screenshot 1567.jpg
Screenshot 1567.jpg (456.89 KiB) Viewed 1046 times

The Tigger Event "Capture VP Event" is not good :

Screenshot 1570.jpg
Screenshot 1570.jpg (230.4 KiB) Viewed 1046 times

Does it look like a bug :?:

Erik2
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Re: WinterWar, improvement suggestions

Post by Erik2 » Sat May 04, 2019 8:33 am

I'll stick my neck out and declare that the trigger event should be changed to 'Turn'.

terminator
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Re: WinterWar, improvement suggestions

Post by terminator » Sat May 04, 2019 9:27 am

Erik2 wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:33 am
I'll stick my neck out and declare that the trigger event should be changed to 'Turn'.
Yes, the Trigger Event should be "Turn Start" (I will add this post to the Bug Database) :

Screenshot 1570(b).jpg
Screenshot 1570(b).jpg (233.39 KiB) Viewed 1022 times

Horst
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Re: WinterWar, improvement suggestions

Post by Horst » Sat May 04, 2019 1:06 pm

Thanks for digging these bugs out, Terminator!
I've already fixed them for myself here according to all these reports so far. Help yourself if no help comes for you after years!
Fixing objectives is rather easy, but it becomes tricky if someone tries to adjust AI behavior during scenarios. All this AI-Team task-switching can easily confuse.

terminator
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Re: WinterWar, improvement suggestions

Post by terminator » Mon May 13, 2019 5:46 pm

8_EastKarelia :

The Campaign Variable has no effect :(

In the previous scenario (7_LadogaKarelia41) :

7_LadogaKarelia41.jpg
7_LadogaKarelia41.jpg (151.28 KiB) Viewed 971 times

In 8_EastKarelia :

8_EastKarelia.jpg
8_EastKarelia.jpg (248.35 KiB) Viewed 973 times

PS : I will add this bug in the Bug Database

Horst
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Re: WinterWar, improvement suggestions

Post by Horst » Mon May 13, 2019 6:48 pm

8_EastKarelia:
I'd remove three static defenders for three destroyed cargo trucks around Ladva: BT-7, BA-10, and the Soviet Inf '41 left of Ladva.
The rest of the units play a rather more useful role or are even tied to AI Team changes.

terminator
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Re: WinterWar, improvement suggestions

Post by terminator » Mon May 13, 2019 9:38 pm

Horst wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 6:48 pm
8_EastKarelia:
I'd remove three static defenders for three destroyed cargo trucks around Ladva: BT-7, BA-10, and the Soviet Inf '41 left of Ladva.
The rest of the units play a rather more useful role or are even tied to AI Team changes.
I don't know for the moment, the Secondary Objective "Destroy 3 Cargo Trucks" in Ladoga Karelia'41(mission 7) is difficult. This may be one of the reasons why few people saw the bug with the image in mission 7 and consequently the bug in the next mission with the Campaign Variable.
.

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