How can I provoke AI into furiously attacking?

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PoorOldSpike
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How can I provoke AI into furiously attacking?

Post by PoorOldSpike » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:02 am

In this standalone scenario I've created, the AI Japs are attacking from the north with 'Move to hex' orders at 'Aggression 60' against my Brits.
The hex the Japs are supposed to move to is the Brit supply base out of frame to the south and I didn't tick the 'Ignore enemy' box.
This is turn 20 of 21 but as you see, a bunch of 6 japs (red circled) seem to have lost the will to fight and have been sitting there for a number of turns digging in and refusing to replenish themselves back up to strength 10, and I was therefore easily able to stop the Jap attack and win.

Notice in the editor (screenshot strip at bottom) I gave them a massive 500 replacement points income per turn, so I'm puzzled why they wouldn't spend it. Are they on strike demanding more cash or what? Isn't 500 enough for them? Huh you try to be nice (sniffle)..

Shall I try giving them more Ground and Air command points to sweeten them up?
in short, I'll be glad to entertain any suggestions on how to make them attack in all their unbridled fury down the full length of the map.

PS- Do you think the two ticked 'Purchase' boxes (red circled at bott right) play some part?
Also, if I make all the Japs Core or Auxiliary, will that have any effect?

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bru888
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Re: How can I provoke AI into furiously attacking?

Post by bru888 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:12 pm

I have a few thoughts but no concrete answers. The AI in this game can be puzzling at times . . .

First, make sure you actually have assigned the Target Hex for the "Move to Hex" Effect. It's easy to miss doing so, as I have been hectoring poor old Erik about recently . . . You will know that you did so if you see a "Remove Hex" button next to "Target Hex."

Second, if you are using a trigger for this instead of a task in AI Setup, take a look at the Trigger Event and the Condition. What are they set for and are they appropriate? Many a trigger does not work because it never fires at all or fires at the wrong time because the Event and/or Condition is wrong.

Third but probably most important, ratchet up the Aggression factor from 60, which is wishy-washy, to 99. And yes, make sure you don't check the "Ignore Enemy" box.

That's if for proactive advice. Now some other possible explanations.

I have read here that the AI will disobey move orders if, in its analysis, it believes that doing so will jeopardize its possession of a nearby victory point. I don't see any in your screen shot but one could be nearby, close enough to influence the AI's "thinking" (especially at Aggression of only 60).

More Ground and Air command points won't affect anything as to movement and the other problem, reinforcement. Aux instead of Core units would make reinforcement cheaper, but you are feeding the AI plenty of resource points.

So why the AI is not reinforcing these units despite adequate resource points is strange. The only thing that I can come up with is those Purchase boxes. At first, I was ready to dismiss this as well but then I thought: If you are giving the AI the capability of purchasing new units, maybe it is saving resource points in order to do so? Perhaps to buy a nuclear bomb to blow you away, once and for all? Try turning the Purchase box off for the AI and see if it changes anything.

Sorry I cannot be any more definite than this.
- Bru

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Re: How can I provoke AI into furiously attacking?

Post by terminator » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:36 pm

bru888 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:12 pm

So why the AI is not reinforcing these units despite adequate resource points is strange. The only thing that I can come up with is those Purchase boxes. At first, I was ready to dismiss this as well but then I thought: If you are giving the AI the capability of purchasing new units, maybe it is saving resource points in order to do so? Perhaps to buy a nuclear bomb to blow you away, once and for all? Try turning the Purchase box off for the AI and see if it changes anything.

Sorry I cannot be any more definite than this.
I don’t think the AI is capable of buying new units on its own. AI only works with triggers.I’ve never seen this in a scenario.

PoorOldSpike
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Re: How can I provoke AI into furiously attacking?

Post by PoorOldSpike » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:54 am

Thanks guys I'll systematically work through your mixed bag of suggestions one by one and post any earth-shattering discoveries in this thread.
Er...but it'd be a lot quicker and simpler if the devs themselves came into this thread and gave us the benefit of their awesome wisdom..

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Re: How can I provoke AI into furiously attacking?

Post by terminator » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:07 pm

PoorOldSpike wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:54 am
Thanks guys I'll systematically work through your mixed bag of suggestions one by one and post any earth-shattering discoveries in this thread.
Er...but it'd be a lot quicker and simpler if the devs themselves came into this thread and gave us the benefit of their awesome wisdom..
If you want to wait for a response from the developers you will need a lot of patience and hope...

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Re: How can I provoke AI into furiously attacking?

Post by PoorOldSpike » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:25 pm

Well I've been running a series of tests to scrutinise different AI 'Seek and Destroy' Aggression levels, and at the moment it seems a level of 55 feels "comfortable" for ground units (50 is the games Default level). (I have yet to test air/naval units).
Anything above 55 will make the AI too fond of knocking itself out with low odds attacks every turn without a break and suffering high losses and fatigue; for example level '100' is apparently a suicide level.
But with 55 they act much more sensibly and will actually take a break on some turns to get their breath back, like two of the AI panzers in this test screenshot (the AI Germans are attacking from the north) who have decided to dig in for a turn or two before resuming the attack, clever guys.
This is turn 11 and notice that none of the AI Germans have let themselves take heavy losses or suffer fatigue, it's a very sensible civilised offensive.
Such behaviour also makes the AI more dangerous because you might rush reinforcements to a threatened sector and then find the enemy spearhead has temporarily stopped attacking there for a schnapps break, while elsewhere he's continuing attacking, so you have to rush your boys back there so that you're not left with egg on your face..:)

(PS- In Level 30 tests the AI Germans were TOO civilised, stopping for long breaks lasting several turns, digging in along the entire front line for a while before resuming their attack)

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Re: How can I provoke AI into furiously attacking?

Post by uran21 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:45 pm

You got lucky today :D Looooong ago I had an email conversation with one of the programmers about aggression. Luckily I did found that email, this is what he told me:
Under the hood, the Aggression is a multiplier. It applies to the 'value' that the AI attaches to destroying / weakening enemy units vs keeping it's own units alive and strong.

The value in the editor is mapped.
50 = a multiplier of 1 (i.e. default behaviour).
100 = 1.5 (i.e. killing the enemy is 1.5x as important and staying alive is 2/3 as important).
0 = 0.5 (i.e. killing the enemy is 1/2 as important and staying alive is 2x as important)

As you noticed, 0 is not the same as ignore enemy. 47 will be almost identical to 48 (but not quite).
All in all, if you are giving resources to the AI aggression of around 50 is fine, if not and if you want to avoid units staring at each other due to strong defenses give it 100 so there will be some action at least. Different solution for a different approach but I do not see much usefulness in fine-tuning those numbers. Trying to force AI to be overly specific about something can lead to frustration by a designer (been there, done that).

PoorOldSpike
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Re: How can I provoke AI into furiously attacking?

Post by PoorOldSpike » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:59 pm

uran21 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:45 pm
You got lucky today :D Looooong ago I had an email conversation with one of the programmers about aggression. Luckily I did found that email...
Thanks, I'm saving your post..:)

"What are our orders Herr Leutnant?"
"We have schnapps and then we attack"
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