conboy's scenarios

Moderators: Order of Battle Moderators, The Artistocrats

Erik2
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 6729
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:59 pm
Location: Norway

Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by Erik2 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:36 pm

No foul-up, just curious.
The Dutch could actually need a couple of more units as it is wise to garrison pri objs along the way...
Maybe split up one of the infantry units?

conboy
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by conboy » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:51 pm

Perhaps.
I thought about that carefully in this scenario. I was plagued by stray bad guys messing with my taken objectives and the rear areas.

So, that's why I zapped all the Germans in the south central portion (French Clear... trigger/popup), and in the v1.0, I added objectives to clear two areas (woods near Raon and east of Fraize -- i should update the map to show that area as Le Bonhomme Pass).

There are almost too many units to handle in this scenario. After the spine of the German defense is broken, there are really too many allied units to deal with.

I hope nobody has the problem you are mentioning. There are serious counterattacks on the Phase I objectives, but I hope no sneaky objective-seizers. I have tried to prevent that without adding more units to shepherd around the battlefield looking for enemy.

conboy

Erik2
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 6729
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:59 pm
Location: Norway

Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by Erik2 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:45 pm

The AI has its own evil ways :evil: :D

The Dutch lost one objective and got their supply cut off by a Gebirgsjäger wandering the forests.

conboy
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by conboy » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:33 pm

Erik
The AI has its own evil ways :evil: :D

The Dutch lost one objective and got their supply cut off by a Gebirgsjäger wandering the forests.
I wonder how that happened! You must be holding your lips wrong!

I hope you save me a replay. Please.

conboy

GabeKnight
Major-General - Elite Tiger I
Major-General - Elite Tiger I
Posts: 2572
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:24 pm

Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by GabeKnight » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:42 pm

A small suggestion beforehand: There are two active links to the "Low Vosges" scen in this thread. After I've played the v0.1 version, Bruce poined out the fact that there's a new version out in your "conboys scen" thread. My point: There's no mention about that in this thread. My suggestion would be to remove all the old links altogether and to either put an active link to your scen in the OP or at least a link to the "conboys scen" thread.

Now back to business:

"Low Vosges to Strasbourg" v0.1, lvl3 difficulty

I've played the scen out of my mod, but I don't think this is going to change the balance of the scen. Maybe some minor supply changes and some new switch modes for the Germans. Shouldn't do much IMO.

Overall, it was quite the tight scen for the first half of the mission. The 20 turn limit may be a bit too much. I'm not sure I would've made it in time with a higher difficulty setting. There's just no real room to maneuver as most units move 1-2 hexes in forests/difficult terrain. And every enemy unit coming from a roadblock or counterattack have to be destroyed completely to avoid having some forgotten enemy unit rampaging through my backyard. I'd suggest about 22 - 23 turns for the average player, you don't want your scens to become puzzles - that's frustrating.

As mentioned, I very much enjoyed the first half of the scen. Although quite the large map, the fighting took place almost entirely in a small fraction of it. That was a great idea. Nice counter-attacks, it was never boring.
But after that, well, something happened what I've feared would happen, because it happens like this with almost all large maps: The bulk of the enemy units are destroyed, it's mostly mop-up action after that. At that point I clearly have the numerical superiority in RP and units and am overrunning everything. Not that it's needed in your scen. Almost no resistance for the last 20 turns. Merely moving large portions of my units through endless roads to fight scattered resitance pockets. Resistance may be a strong word, rather "nuisances" on the way to the final VP hex. But that's my personal experience and preference: Usually I like smaller maps with tighter turn limits.

Yeah, okay, there was some small German Panzer formation (XX Lehr) waiting in the north, but for one, they were under-supplied when I've got to them and either way, they would have had no chance against my airforce and Hellcats combined. I think it may have been more interesting if you would scratch my final reinforcements wave (after the 20-turn primary objective).

Another thing you should DEFINITELY change are the supply sources of your map. I have no idea how you came up with such nonsense (sorry, but it's true): The whole north is pitifully under-supplied, most cities and prim. or sec. VP locations have no supply whatsover, the rest of the supply sources are scattered wildy throughout the map, some on mountain hexes, others inside river hexes or just somewhere in the open.
This leads to either unwanted under-supply situations (like mentioned above), enemy units guarding unimportant supply locations (and leaving the important ones unguarded!) or just some silly supply pockets for enemy units to hide and repair (and to come back to haunt me).
Personally I hated it when I had to revert at least 2 inf. units to chase some enemy infantry through mountain hexes (above hill 645) because there's some supply point there and the enemy unit just didn't want to die...

If there's no need to create intentional under-supply situations for the player or AI in the scens (because it's in the nature of the objectives), my suggestion: just don't do it. There's no real downside (or advantage) to over-supply as far as I know. Assign 5-10 supply to every city/town/village hex and even more to some important supply-hubs (like Strasbourg).

On the bright side, all triggers and objectives and enemy units did what they were supposed to do and the RPs were plenty (and I've always elite repaired every unit) :wink: :D

- the event "French Clear South" has no pic
- one of the units of the "Raon/Etival"-reinforcement-wave is a halftrack truck without any infantry unit assigned to it. Intended?
- there were some units east of "Fraize" that basically did nothing until being attacked. I've "discovered" them rather by accident and almost bypassed them. If this is part of some cunning counter-attack later on, good, otherwise they may have been forgotten in the AI team settings(?) (EDIT: I see, this was changed in the v1.0 version to an objective)

Thanks for sharing, conboy! :D

Screenshot 27.jpg
Screenshot 27.jpg (910.27 KiB) Viewed 605 times

conboy
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by conboy » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:52 pm

In reply to GabeKnight:
"Low Vosges to Strasbourg" v0.1, lvl3 difficulty
GabeKnight, you always confirm my worst fears about my scenarios, which is why I so eagerly await your comments. Ok, here goes:
1) I will fix supply situation (being ex-US Army, the entire concept of supply is a bafflement ...) (this is a new one on me but I will review all your comments about supply and address)
2) I must to do something about the battle in the north and east (you hit a bare nerve on that one, but all you said is true about the lack of opposition after turn 20 -- this is what I was most worried about)
3) I'll extend the battle in the Vosges beyond 20 -- some guys have expressed that it is too short @20 turns -- the very same guys for whom I am trying to make the scenarios. (I HATE puzzle games... that's why all the orders in my scenarios.) Point well-made and taken.

As always, I am indebted to you for taking the time to provide a pointy critique.

enjoy the rest of summer! (might be a joke to you, but not to me!)

sweltering in Dixie,
conboy

p.s., I will never ever make another scenario over 20 turns! They're just too dang hard to fix via playthroughs!

conboy
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by conboy » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:06 pm

Mascarenhas,
Check your PM, I left you a link to my replay of the v0.1 to see if it matches your concept of the gameplay. If it doesn't I'd appreciate you advising me as to why it didn't -- if the briefing and the map features aren't clear, I'd like to know. Just so I don't get a rep for putting out nonsense.

Even if you are playing v1.0, the v0.1 replay will show how I intended it to be played so you can compare.

Thanks so much for taking the time to play the scenario and post comments!

conboy

Mascarenhas
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:45 am

Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by Mascarenhas » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:35 pm

conboy wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:06 pm
Mascarenhas,
Check your PM, I left you a link to my replay of the v0.1 to see if it matches your concept of the gameplay. If it doesn't I'd appreciate you advising me as to why it didn't -- if the briefing and the map features aren't clear, I'd like to know. Just so I don't get a rep for putting out nonsense.

Even if you are playing v1.0, the v0.1 replay will show how I intended it to be played so you can compare.

Thanks so much for taking the time to play the scenario and post comments!

conboy
Hi, comrade;

I agree with most of the comments made by GK and E2; but, at least for me, the main tactical problem was just the <19 goal. It´s feasible - if you try more then once - but still very hard. I´d suggest moving it to @20 and the bulk of phase I objs to @ 21. Certainly, a bit more opposition beyond phase I would add a lot of fun to your already very challenging scen.
Congrats.
M

conboy
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by conboy » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:58 am

Mascarenhas,
Got it!
Thanks for your comments -- they are extremely helpful. I was afraid the early part was too tough, so thanks for confirming that fear. I hope that I can count on you in the future for your comments; I very much appreciate your perspective.

conboy

conboy
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by conboy » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:29 am

Ok, v1.1 is posted, link in OP.
Loosened up the objective timelines for Phase I, made sure the German counterattacks are well-supplied, fixed some map spots in which roads were impassable, added some sanity to supply situation. Also added the picture that was missing for one of the Pop-ups.

Bru, Erik, GabeKnight, Mascarenhas -- thanks for the time and input. This one is a wrap...

conboy

p.s., GabeKnight, some of the apparently random supply points are where the XV Corps units deploy, don't want them to land in a battle without supply.

thanks again.

Mascarenhas
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:45 am

Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by Mascarenhas » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:08 pm

Hi,

The link in the opening post is directed to v0.0, did you miss to rename it or else?

Thx

conboy
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by conboy » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:13 pm

Mascarenhas,
Thanks. Clarification: The link to v1.1 (and always the most up-to-date version) is in the Original Post of the "conboy scenarios" thread.
Link:
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewto ... 20#p797665

conboy

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 4100
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by bru888 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:44 pm

Time to merge that thread into this one because it's getting confusing . . . done.
- Bru

GabeKnight
Major-General - Elite Tiger I
Major-General - Elite Tiger I
Posts: 2572
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:24 pm

Re: New Scenario: Low Vosges to Strasbourg

Post by GabeKnight » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:22 pm

conboy wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:52 pm
2) I must to do something about the battle in the north and east (you hit a bare nerve on that one, but all you said is true about the lack of opposition after turn 20 -- this is what I was most worried about)
You could add more opposition and/or some large "last attempt" counter-attack in the north, but that would mean adding a whole more turns to the scen. That's one of the things I don't like about (too) large maps: too long -> to keep the player interested, my estimate would be that you'll need about 60-80 turns on the map size you've chosen...
Scen design is a bitch :wink:
conboy wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:29 am
p.s., GabeKnight, some of the apparently random supply points are where the XV Corps units deploy, don't want them to land in a battle without supply.
Sure, those have to stay.
BTW, do you know you can add supply locations during the game via triggers? I think it's called "change supply output" or something like that. That way you won't reveal tactical information beforehand.
conboy wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:52 pm
As always, I am indebted to you for taking the time to provide a pointy critique.
You're welcome.
But seriously, as non-native-english-speaking-person it's roughly taken me about the same amount of time to write/proof-read/correct the post as it took to play the scen. :roll: :lol:
But I know that the same goes for you: designing, play-testing and correcting the scen for us to play. So, the way I see it: quid pro quo. :wink:

conboy
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: conboy's scenarios

Post by conboy » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:11 pm

GabeKnight, thanks for commenting further. Some notes in response:
You could add more opposition and/or some large "last attempt" counter-attack in the north, but that would mean adding a whole more turns to the scen. That's one of the things I don't like about (too) large maps: too long -> to keep the player interested, my estimate would be that you'll need about 60-80 turns on the map size you've chosen...
Very true -- after I read your previous comments, I looked at the scenario and came to the same conclusion. In addition, I didn't want to deviate too far from the historical sources, in which XV Corps romped all over the remaining Germans, once the Meurthe crossings were secured. I should have broken the scenario into two different ones, in retrospect.
BTW, do you know you can add supply locations during the game via triggers? I think it's called "change supply output" or something like that. That way you won't reveal tactical information beforehand.
I didn't know this, but now I do. I'll check it out -- if there ever was a scenario that needed a boost like that - this is it. UPDATE -- that would have worked for the arriving XV Corps units. Thanks for the tip!
But seriously, as non-native-english-speaking-person it's roughly taken me about the same amount of time to write/proof-read/correct the post as it took to play the scen.
Hmmm. I suspect your English is better than mine!

thanks again for playing the scenario and commenting -- many lessons learned in this one.

conboy

Mascarenhas
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:45 am

Re: conboy's scenarios

Post by Mascarenhas » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:25 pm

Low Vosges AAR

I made it, at the third attempt. In fact, under circumstances, I even got both locations at 19th turn, as a welcome training effect; because the next 21 turns are really a race for the remaining objectives.

Great scenario, keep up and many thanks.

conboy
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: conboy's scenarios

Post by conboy » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:17 pm

I'm glad you whipped it before turn 20 -- I was hoping that I didn't make it too difficult. I did add two more turns for those objectives based on your feedback, which I do appreciate very much. Hope you enjoyed the scenario and I also hope you will help me in the future as more come out!

conboy

Mascarenhas
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:45 am

Re: conboy's scenarios

Post by Mascarenhas » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:41 pm

conboy wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:17 pm
I'm glad you whipped it before turn 20 -- I was hoping that I didn't make it too difficult. I did add two more turns for those objectives based on your feedback, which I do appreciate very much. Hope you enjoyed the scenario and I also hope you will help me in the future as more come out!

conboy
I´ll be glad to help whenever you need.

GabeKnight
Major-General - Elite Tiger I
Major-General - Elite Tiger I
Posts: 2572
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:24 pm

Re: conboy's scenarios

Post by GabeKnight » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:22 pm

This thread needs some updated post for better visibility... done.

Post Reply

Return to “Order of Battle : World War II - Scenario Design”