BrucErik CSD Studio

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Erik2
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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by Erik2 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:31 pm

bru888 wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:10 pm
....
So, will Hevossalmi see the light of day or is there a reason to suppress it as an offshoot of Tolvajärvi-1 defeat? I have not read through the scripting yet to see if that is the case.
Spec point revision approved :wink:

Hevossalmi was a historical follow-up to the lost Tolvajärvi. The battles revolved around the same hotel (a battle for the suite probably).
If you think Hevossalmi looks more interesting one we can skip Tolvajärvi.
Doing both after a win at Tolvajärvi makes no sense. Maybe after a draw though.

Man, I really love the work you are doing. My simple meat & potato stuff gets all this wonderful gravy.
I believe you will be fluent in Finnish after Winter War 40 and Continuation War 41... :shock:

Edit: Winterhorde Onward Ride - Karelian Isthmus
I think this is because these scenarios are really small-scale (squad/platoon-level) and there could be local geographic anomalies like these.
Anyway, I don't mind your redo.

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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by bru888 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:51 pm

Erik2 wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:31 pm
Hevossalmi was a historical follow-up to the lost Tolvajärvi. The battles revolved around the same hotel (a battle for the suite probably).
If you think Hevossalmi looks more interesting one we can skip Tolvajärvi.
Doing both after a win at Tolvajärvi makes no sense. Maybe after a draw though.
No, don't change anything. I thought that might be the case. I do have an idea, though. It will only take me a few minutes to set up and test - look back here later.
Erik2 wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:31 pm
I believe you will be fluent in Finnish after Winter War 40 and Continuation War 41... :shock:
Just don't ask me to pronounce any of it. :)
- Bru

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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by bru888 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:38 pm

In my exuberance (or fatigue), I forgot the outcome images for Winterhorde Onward Ride - Karelian Isthmus. Since I see that you have already merged the 01Terijoki scenario folder with the Winter War 1939 campaign, I sneaked these images in there:

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I have a feeling that Winter War images may be limited in number, so there could be some repetitions in the future.
- Bru

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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by bru888 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:27 am

bru888 wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:51 pm
Erik2 wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:31 pm
Hevossalmi was a historical follow-up to the lost Tolvajärvi. The battles revolved around the same hotel (a battle for the suite probably).
If you think Hevossalmi looks more interesting one we can skip Tolvajärvi.
Doing both after a win at Tolvajärvi makes no sense. Maybe after a draw though.
No, don't change anything. I thought that might be the case. I do have an idea, though. It will only take me a few minutes to set up and test - look back here later.
And here it is. Just a couple of notes: "HevossalmiAlternate" would be a copy of 07Hevossalmi. "The_End" is just a placeholder scenario, made necessary because branching directly to Victory or Defeat is not possible. Let these pictures tell the rest of the story and let me know if this is something you may want to do or whether you would prefer not to overly complicate matters.

SETUP

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DEMONSTRATION

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- Bru

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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by bru888 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:14 am

Pending your answer to the above proposal, here is another installment.

Kollaa - Fire Brigade Locomotive

I see that it is going to be a bit of a task to "localize" these Winter War maps in two respects:
1) Much of this territory, at least so far, ended up as the Russian Republic of Karelia, hence place names appear on maps in their Russian versions.
2) There aren't that many locations to begin with! Here is a map of Suoyarvi (Finnish: Suojärvi). It is approximately 34km from Suoyarvi to Loymola and there is only one village, Piytsiyeki, along the way. Suovarvi is in Wikipedia (hence my being able to find the Finnish version of the name) but the other two don't even show up in Google searches.

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I do not want to use the Russian names (anything that ends in "ki" is definitely out), so I may need to employ a bit of artistic license. Hence Piytsiyeki becomes Pitkäranta which I picked up someplace nearby; Loymola remains Loymola because it doesn't sound too un-Finnish; and the fourth objective point becomes "Train Station" (see below).

After the well-written introductory blurb (except for its use of "it's" for "its,") I was excited about the Finnish armored train! Imagine my surprise, then, to open the scenario and find no train. The disappointment . . . this had to be remedied. Thus:

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That one is on the map to begin the scenario. The second one comes along in Turn 5 as you intended (below should say "Defence Command" - I corrected it):

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Source: Finnish Armoured Trains 1918 - 1940

To compensate, I removed the second armoured train spawn trigger in Turn 6. The tradeoff for having the first train for four extra turns: Needing to protect them as a secondary objective.

According to our agreement on the specialisations schedule, I removed the +1 specialisation point from the "Shoot down at least 1 enemy air unit" objective. It still provides a commander and the "Do not lose more than 2 infantry units" gives +1 specialisation point.

Here is the array of secondary objectives with the two new train objectives highlighted; the first one will shut off when the second one activates:

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Removed deployment hexes that were in Soviet territory. Distributed them to other areas.

There was no place to deploy a Finnish fighter once the player received the extra command points and resources and purchased it. The Off-map Air Supply Source was off. I fixed.

In addition to the new armoured train objectives, I beefed up the downed enemy aircraft module. I did some other secondary objective trigger editing as well.

By the way, I see what you are doing with the Finnish commanders. I am tracking them and will offer them in the same order but perhaps spread out a bit more. So far, there's been one land and one air commander offered. I want to work something in that tests for whether those were successfully activated; if not, offer them again; if so, offer the next in line.

This scenario has been uploaded to the "Back to Erik" folder.
- Bru

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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by Erik2 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:08 pm

Bruce

I have only one word to describe this; Approved :wink:


Since this campaign is squad/platoon-based with matching hex sizes, I've decided to replace a number of the village/town hexes with decorations.
It should suite the scale better.

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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by bru888 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:16 pm

Erik2 wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:08 pm
Bruce

I have only one word to describe this; Approved :wink:
Great. I will post the revised campaign files in a little while.
- Bru

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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by bru888 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:00 pm

Erik2 wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:08 pm
Since this campaign is squad/platoon-based with matching hex sizes, I've decided to replace a number of the village/town hexes with decorations.
It should suite the scale better.
Remember, incidentally, that you need village hexes for deployment subsequent to the Deployment Phase. IIRC, a flag on open terrain with just decorations does not function in this manner. In Kollaa, for example, you provide additional Finnish land CPs in later turns.
- Bru

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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by bru888 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:12 pm

Erik2 wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:08 pm
I have only one word to describe this; Approved :wink:
There is a folder in "Back to Erik" named "Revised Campaign Files and Placeholder Scenarios":

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"HevossalmiAlternate" will change when the original changes; I will copy that and rename the copy "HevossalmiAlternate." On the other hand, "The_End" will remain the same.
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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by bru888 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:36 am

Linnasalmi - Kill As Many Russians As You Can

I did a bit of Colonel Kurtz in this one. Actually, more like Lieutenant Colonel Bill Kilgore. This guy wants a body count and pays +100 resources for each Soviet killed beyond number 4. I extended the objective to "Scenario turn limit" and gave a few more turns.

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Three of the objectives are supply dumps now and the fourth, Korte, is a separate secondary objective. +1 specialisation point for the former, get commander for the latter.

Speaking of which, here is the module that I was talking about previously:

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The first trigger turns on the "Finnish Commanders" folder. In that folder are two triggers (so far; there will be more in later scenarios) that ask if the land commander from a previous scenario was ever unlocked. If not, then unlock him now (and turn off the other trigger). If he was unlocked before, then move on to the next land commander. And so on, a chain that will grow with the number of land commanders that you have in the campaign - not too bad; only 4 or 5. Separate chain for air commanders. This way, the player ultimately gets all commanders sometime during the campaign (unless he is a terrible player) instead of missing out because he couldn't complete particular secondary objectives. (I tested this; it seems to work.)

Other changes:
- Extended some roads, particularly to supply dumps.
- Added farm terrain and building/woods decorations (I have been doing this, incidentally).
- Trimmed the Scenario Description and edited the Scenario Name
- Added a few turns, as I mentioned above.
- Corrected a few issues in the objectives triggers.
- Redirected the three AI teams to target the supply dumps first, then converge on Korte, then Seek & Destroy

This scenario has been uploaded to the "Back to Erik" folder.
- Bru

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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by bru888 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:22 pm

Erik, I'll do the best that I can with these maps but it will acquire "winging it" (improvisation) to some extent. Take Palovaara and Suomussalmi for example.

Google has Palovaara here:

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and another version here:

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The second one is nearer to Suomussalmi but not in agreement with your source (which I found, by the way) saying "the 81st Regiment of the Soviet 163rd Rifle Division continued it's (its! its!) drive towards Soumussalmi and unknown doom. On the night of December 7th, 1939 the newly formed 1./Er.P 15 (reinforcement battalion) deployed to the Kylänmäki junction to conduct a delaying action against 81/163 which was moving south (my italics) from Palovaara." According to the second Google Map, Palovaara is actually south of Soumussalmi, not north.

Bing is not much better. It has one version of Palovaara east of Soumussalmi:

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and another version to the northwest:

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So. The major "cities" mentioned in the descriptions should be easy to locate but as far as a place like Krylänmäki (spelling? fictional?) nobody has ever heard of it aside from The Blitz and John Tiller Software. I'll keep the name, of course - what do I know? - but I suspect a bit of artistic license.

Say, these are practically your next door neighbors. You wouldn't be willing to drive over there and scout these locations, perhaps drawing your own pencil maps? No? Well, that's probably for the best; I wouldn't want to lose you in some Finnish bog. :wink:

Therefore, I will do my best to locate these battles and dig up accurate location names if possible. Otherwise, I will "wing it" as I don't like Objective-1, Objective-2, etc.:
"Sergeant, move the platoon out to the next objective."
"Where is that, lieutenant?"
"Nincompoop, why do you think we numbered these objectives? We just took Objective-1, the next is Objective-2. Look on the map. See the '2'? Right here!"
- Bru

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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by bru888 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:50 pm

Heh, no sooner did I post that than I inadvertently zoomed-in the Bing map and lo and behold, another Suomussalmi appeared, this time south of this version of Palovaara. Do you see the fun that I am having? (Which is true; I do enjoy this stuff):

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So, one more mouse wheel zoom-in and there they were; the three village names needed, Laherma, Hietakylä, and Karvola:

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How's that for historic research and cartographic integrity? :roll:
- Bru

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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by bru888 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:19 pm

According to this spreadsheet that I designed - it's based on averages that appeared to be corroborated by a survey of DLC Campaigns - any time the running maximum number of Command Points goes up, you should provide the player with additional starting resources. A new maximum of land CP's was reached in Scenario 4 (so far).

The premise is this: To begin with, the player should have enough starting resources to "fill out" his army (the spreadsheet would give almost twice as much starting RPs' as you did in Scenario 1) and have income of RPs/Turn thereafter (+1/turn/unit which is remarkably close to the average in DLC) meant for repairs and reinforcements. No more starting RP's until the number of Command Points has reached a new maximum, at which time implying that the player needs to purchase more units.

In my opinion, this is fair. You however, tend to be more rigorous in your standards (whereas I want to be challenged and have fun :) ) so don't do anything based on these numbers. I just feel the need to share that one idea with you: Anytime the maximum number of purchaseable units goes up (such as in Scenario 4), perhaps give the player a break by giving him some more starting RP's to cover the difference from the previous maximum to the current maximum of CP's. The 80 that you provide in Scenario 2 was neither necessary at that time nor sufficient for the increased force in Scenario 4.

FWIW only, Erik.

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- Bru

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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by bru888 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:48 am

Delaying Action at Krylänmäki

The men in this Soviet pocket had no supply and are not paratroopers, so I fixed that. It also gave me an idea.

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AI Team 1 "5 Rifle" is the main threat in the early going so AI Team 2 "4 Rifle" can afford to handle a special assignment:

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To faciliatate this objective, I did the following:
- Extended a dirt road to and through Karvola.
- Placed neutral hexes around Karvola to prevent any initial deployment in the pocket.
- Moved AI Team 2 "4 Rifle" forward to nearly surround Karvola, albeit strung out a bit. Both roads out of town are blocked.
- Made AI Team 2 start the scenario on "Static Defense."
- Wrote two triggers: "Activate 4 Rifle - T6" and "Activate 4 Rifle - casualties" so that either one will activate AI Team 2.
- Wrote a trigger to award the objective if the unit escapes to nearby Hietakylä.
- Added a few more deployment hexes to facilitate the "Save the Battalion" objective.
- Moved the "get commander" prize to this objective.

Other changes:
- Beefed up Finnish supply so that the loss of the first objective (and even the second) will not be such a calamity.
- Tweaked the AI Team 1 and 2 activation triggers to complete at least two VP conquests each before exiting.
- Continued building the Finnish Commanders land commander chain.
- Added farm terrain and building/woods decorations.

This scenario has been uploaded to the "Back to Erik" folder.
- Bru

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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by Erik2 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:20 pm

bru888 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:19 pm
According to this spreadsheet that I designed - it's based on averages that appeared to be corroborated by a survey of DLC Campaigns - any time the running maximum number of Command Points goes up, you should provide the player with additional starting resources. A new maximum of land CP's was reached in Scenario 4 (so far).

The premise is this: To begin with, the player should have enough starting resources to "fill out" his army (the spreadsheet would give almost twice as much starting RPs' as you did in Scenario 1) and have income of RPs/Turn thereafter (+1/turn/unit which is remarkably close to the average in DLC) meant for repairs and reinforcements. No more starting RP's until the number of Command Points has reached a new maximum, at which time implying that the player needs to purchase more units.

In my opinion, this is fair. You however, tend to be more rigorous in your standards (whereas I want to be challenged and have fun :) ) so don't do anything based on these numbers. I just feel the need to share that one idea with you: Anytime the maximum number of purchaseable units goes up (such as in Scenario 4), perhaps give the player a break by giving him some more starting RP's to cover the difference from the previous maximum to the current maximum of CP's. The 80 that you provide in Scenario 2 was neither necessary at that time nor sufficient for the increased force in Scenario 4.

FWIW only, Erik.
Actually, I used a similar system using the Editor -> Settings -> 'Allow Custom Starting Force' (running the scenario in single play) as a calculator to arrive at the correct resource/command point numbers.
Here are my numbers (do you want me to put the spreadsheet in our dropbox folder?)
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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by Erik2 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:26 pm

Mr Funny Guy, you crack me up :lol:

Another string of approvements. You are obviously on a roll here.

BTW, I'm aware of the village/deployment issue.

Your assistant

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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by bru888 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:52 pm

Erik2 wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:20 pm
Actually, I used a similar system using the Editor -> Settings -> 'Allow Custom Starting Force' (running the scenario in single play) as a calculator to arrive at the correct resource/command point numbers.
Here are my numbers (do you want me to put the spreadsheet in our dropbox folder?)
As anticipated, your system is more stringent than mine. You got the lower number for the first scenario, presumably, by handpicking mostly infantry units, placing them, then converting them to points as you describe. My procedure allows for a broader range of unit selection, although the number of units will still be about the same:

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[Those averages are based on values in units.csv, over all land units that have supply/CPs and costs.]

You are the genius in charge of gameplay balance and your results have been fine (mostly, and you adjust when necessary), so keep on doing what you have been doing. It was a foregone conclusion that you had a system, so keep following it.

One thing that I believe we can agree on is the rule of +1 resource point income per unit. In my survey of DLC, that was remarkably consistent (it's as if the top guy told the designers this). The overall average (12 campaigns) was 1.1 Income Per Unit.
- Bru

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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by bru888 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:48 am

The Somme at Taipale/Koukkuniemi

There was one orphan, "3/1/3 Rifle." He obviously belonged to AI Team 2 "3 Rifle Co."

I reorganized objectives, bunkers, foxholes, mines, and tank trap decorations to more properly portray a defensive line, using the same number of each (except for decorations, maybe) - all I did was move them.

I also relocated 10-12 deployment hexes closer to the front line; some of their placements far to the rear, in swamps and deep forests, did not make sense to me. Also moved some supply hexes and tweaked AI assignments accordingly.

I threw in a goodie for destroying tanks. We are now at the limit of offering +1 specialisation points, as we agreed, so future bonuses will need to be somewhat creative. Resources is the first thing that comes to mind.

At some point, the land commander chain should end as well. As a matter of fact, as I am typing this, I am starting to question my wisdom in building that chain.

Here is my thinking: The player is likely to not notice an extra specialisation point or two that is not needed. He will, however, be looking for a commander every time on is offered and he succeeds. My premise has been to give him a second chance to activate each one. The problem is, what if the player is 100% successful and gets all 5, each on the first pass? If I keep offering the commanders in a contingency chain, this player feels cheated when he receives none as promised.*

This scenario has been uploaded to the "Back to Erik" folder.

*Also uploaded are new versions of the Linnasalmi and Soumussalmi scenarios. Linnasalmi is where I started that ill-advised commander chain. Bad idea, a case of overthinking. I reverted back to your original schedule and direct method of awarding commanders. The player either earns them when they are offered or he goes without. Sorry for any inconvenience.
- Bru

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Re: BrucErik CSD Studio

Post by bru888 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:41 am

Here is the campaign tree. I sneaked a copy of it into the campaign folder.

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Back to UK & Canada Normandie

Post by Mascarenhas » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:10 am

Caumont Scenario: Off Map AF in the center and east of the map are not working properly. They´re ok to place planes at the beginning, but are useless to exit them when their movement range so require.
Pls, take note for the next update.

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