Free France Campaign

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ColonelY
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

:!: We still have this one:
ColonelY wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:46 pm Hey, do you remember the famous Normandie-Niemen?


:idea: Historical event on July 15, 1944 (either in a scenario or as a campaign event, we'll see!): 8)

The facts... as basis for text event or suggestion of text... anyway, here is it:
In August 1943, all the French technical personnel were transferred to the Middle East and replaced by Soviet personnel (it must be admitted that the French mechanics were not used to working in temperatures of -30°C...). As a result, the "Normandie" lost its companions of the first hour, but gained this specificity which contributed to forge its symbolic dimension: French pilots and Russian mechanics united in the same unit. This was a first in history.
A new tragedy occurred on July 15, 1944: Lieutenant Maurice de Seynes, who was the victim of a fuel leak, rushed back to the Doubrovka airfield from where he had taken off a few minutes earlier. Blinded by the gasoline fumes that invaded his cockpit, he tried in vain several times to land. The Soviets ordered him to jump.
De Seynes refused because he did not want to abandon his mechanic Vladimir Bielozoub to a certain death, as it is commonly done for short trips from one field to another. And Bielozoub does not have a parachute...
After several other unsuccessful attempts, the Yak 9 crashes and explodes, killing its two occupants.
The Parisian aristocrat and the Volga peasant were buried next to each other in Doubrovka. The sacrifice of Maurice de Seynes had an enormous impact in the USSR and will go down in the history books as a symbol of the unfailing friendship between France and Russia.



Picture(s) here (at least the one with the French pilot and the Russian mechanic :wink: ):
https://www.herodote.net/12_novembre_19 ... 421112.php

:arrow: Or perhaps this may rather be represented like :idea: two events in a row... the first one with some cool picture and as text about the first paragraph, more "generic". And the second one about our two famous guys. :wink:
There is a scenario about this famous group of pilots... A little reminder for the player?

Rather cool, I would say; and there hasn't been much talk of snow or frost so far in this campaign...

:arrow: THE (main) picture of interest for us is a little after the middle of the webpage (scrolling down, I mean)... the one with the two guys on the photo. :wink:
bru888
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

An example of the scalability of this game.

Toulon, from Operation Dragoon (default zoom):

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Toulon, from Operation Lila Denied (default zoom - can't fit the entire city in the screen):

Screenshot 2.jpg
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Both perfectly suitable for the task at hand. :wink:
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bru888
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

ColonelY wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 3:23 pm :arrow: How do you plan to build this? :?:

Option 1: One scenario to cover the whole operation Dragoon?

Or maybe...

Option 2: :idea:
-> A first scenario of more modest size with the landing as such, including commando and airborne operations + of course the first wave of the 3 US infantry divisions and one French armored division...
-> And another scenario of relatively modest size as well with the French approaching both Toulon and Marseille? :wink:

Or perhaps...

Another variant? :?:
Option 3, a combination: part of the campaign, only one scenario, just the French approaching Toulon and Marseille (and a race to get to Aix-en-Provence before the Americans as a secondary objective).

Usually, when people design for Operation Dragoon, they will use a map like this and include anybody and everybody who set foot in Provence at that time:

Operation_Dragoon_map.jpg
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However, as stated previously, I don't intend to show such battles with the French off in a corner. Instead, this was my template, with the French front and center:

template.jpg
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As a matter of fact, I was just finishing the map when you were posting above:

map.jpg
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Notice that I was fortunate to have scaled the map just large enough to include Les Îles d'Hyères, before I read about the commando action down there which I now want to include. Notice the battleship Lorraine all by herself down there, for now.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I will go over them and see what I can use.
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ColonelY
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

Very nice! :D

Hmm... :idea: Perhaps some pine forests here and there (at locations where we're rather unlikely to go through)? :wink:
bru888 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 5:20 pm [...] Notice that I was fortunate to have scaled the map just large enough to include Les Îles d'Hyères, before I read about the commando action down there which I now want to include. [...]
:arrow: Yes, then you definitely were fortunate about this scaling, for it would indeed have been a pity zapping the commando actions that is about to take place there (including some... Free French commandos)! :D
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

Yes, I know that I am ducking the pine forests. I was waiting until we moved to northeast France. Think I should put some in here anyway, although it's a warmer environment?
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

Actually, I will answer my own question. In Europe, Bruce, anywhere there are MOUNTAINS, it will be cold enough for evergreen trees at higher elevations.
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ColonelY
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

So, yes, a few here and there would be (and look) pretty good... :wink:
Epperaliant
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by Epperaliant »

Reading this made me wonder, are there no mountain troops in this game?
I think I saw Alpini, but I don't remember any mountain related trait except those mountain guns.
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

Epperaliant wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:09 pm Reading this made me wonder, are there no mountain troops in this game?
I think I saw Alpini, but I don't remember any mountain related trait except those mountain guns.
In this campaign or in the game?

There are plenty of mountain troops in the game (German alpine troops are labeled Gebirgsjäger when viewed):

Image0434.jpg
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Aside from sharing the "concealable" trait, they all have the "ski" chassis which means, depending on the climate, they use 25 to 50% less movement points for moving through a mountain hex.

As far as the campaign goes, I believe that I have used German Gebirgsjäger and Italian Alpini troops here and there. Maybe the French Chasseurs Alpins once; I can't remember. It's too late for them now (1940 version only, weak) UNLESS I dumb the Axis units down to match (i.e., use 1940 units) in Battle of Authion in April 1945 (the last scenario to come, a final battle in the French Alps — I just realized that I have been misspelling that name, leaving out the "u").
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

ColonelY wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:01 pm So, yes, a few here and there would be (and look) pretty good... :wink:
Et voilà!

Screenshot 1.jpg
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I tuck them out of the way, yes? So that they are not in the way, yes? :)

For, I don't like these trees. Besides blocking movement, they don't blend well with neighboring terrain.
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by Epperaliant »

Understood.
bru888
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

ColonelY wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 2:38 pm Campaign event: "Highly symbolical meeting!" :D

"At Nogent-sur-Seine, west of the Langres plateau, on 12 September 1944, two reconnaissance units make contact. One comes from the "2e Division Blindée" of Leclerc, while the other comes from the "1re DFL".

Thus, after hard fightings, the arm of Leclerc, from Normandy, and the arm of Tassigny, from Italy, Corsica and North Africa, can finally shake hands!

In the eyes of the French combattants, this meeting embodies the dazzling victory of the French army over Nazism, the end of the dark years of the Occupation!

But, of course, the war is not over yet..."

Or something similar... :wink:
Atkinson has the location as "Nod-sur-Seine, forty miles northeast of Dijon":

Image0436.jpg
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Apparently, Nod-sur-Seine is not the same as Nogent-sur-Seine:

Image0438.jpg
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I don't think de Lattre's forces ever made it as close to Paris as Nogent-sur-Seine whereas Nod-sur-Seine, near Dijon, seems more logical for the meeting. I will go with Atkinson unless you have further documentation that contradicts him. (Despite his own error; Nod-sur-Seine being northwest of Dijon. :roll: )
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by bru888 »

Therefore, this campaign message between Liberation of Paris and Strasbourg:

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ColonelY
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

Yes, fine for these pine trees. :)
*******
No...-sur-Seine: :shock: I'll check this out...
*******
For Paris: 8)

A picture:
https://ville-nogentsurmarne.com/wp-con ... 8c4b24.jpg

Its text: (In French; a translation just below it... CNR="Conseil national de la Résistance", like "National Council of the Resistance"... FFI="Free French from Inside", or "Forces Françaises de l'Intérieur")
"PARIS SE BAT

Le C.N.R., compte tenu de la situation intérieure dans la région parisienne le 21 août au soir, fait sien l'appel du Comité Parisien de la Libération ci-dessous qui contient les consignes valables pour toute la résistance et toutes les forces françaises de l'intérieur:

Paris, le 21 août 1944.

PARISIENS.
L'insurrection du peuple de Paris a déjà libéré de nombreux édifices publics de la capitale. Une première grande victoire est remportée.
La lutte continue. Elle doit se poursuivre jusqu'à ce que l'ennemi soit chassé de la région parisienne.
Plus que jamais tous au combat.
Répondez à l'ordre de mobilisation générale, rejoignez les F.F.I.
Toute la population doit par tous les moyens empêcher la circulation de l'ennemi.
Abattez les arbres, creusez des fossés antichars, dressez des barricades.
C'est un peuple vainqueur qui recevra les Alliés.

LE COMITE PARISIEN DE LIBERATION
"

And a translated version of it:
"PARIS BEATS

The C.N.R., taking into account the internal situation in the Paris region on the evening of August 21, endorses the appeal of the Parisian Liberation Committee below, which contains instructions valid for the entire Resistance and all French forces in the interior:

Paris, August 21, 1944.

PARISIANS.
The insurrection of the people of Paris has already liberated many public buildings in the capital. A first great victory has been won.
The struggle continues. It must continue until the enemy is driven out of the Paris region.
More than ever, we are all in the fight.
Answer the general mobilization order, join the F.F.F.
The whole population must by all means prevent the enemy's movement.
Cut down trees, dig anti-tank ditches, set up barricades.
It is a victorious people who will receive the Allies.

THE PARISIAN LIBERATION COMMITTEE
"

This (translated) text was written just before this picture: ( https://ville-nogentsurmarne.com/75e-an ... sur-marne/ )
"On August 23, 1944, Le Parisien Libéré announced a complete defeat of the German army, the Allies being at the gates of the Capital. The battle of Ile-de-France ended with the encirclement of Paris and the liberation of the suburban cities.

While the Allies crossed the Seine at Mantes to enter Fontainebleau and Melun, the Parisian front and the suburban cities were organized, the FFI harassed and inflicted heavy losses on the enemy... barricades were erected in Paris, on the main roads.

Paris was fighting, as were the towns in the inner suburbs. The CNR (=Conseil national de la Résistance) adopted the call of the Parisian Liberation Committee on August 21, 1944, to share the instructions for the entire resistance and all the French forces in the interior.

A whole people was united, standing up for victory!
"
Last edited by ColonelY on Thu May 06, 2021 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

Paris: 8)

For the authorization to detach Leclerc's 2nd armored division in order to contribute to the liberation of Paris (where the population had already revolted!), De Gaulle wrote to Eisenhower and then sent Generals Koenig (hero of Bir Hakeim) followed by Juin (hero of Italy) to Eisenhower to coordinate the operation... :wink: (EDIT: And this info comes from the War Memoirs of the General himself - De Gaulle, of course! :lol: :wink: ...)

Note that American troops also participated in the liberation of Paris (including the US 4th ID)... :wink:
Last edited by ColonelY on Thu May 06, 2021 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

Nogent-sur-Seine or rather Nod-sur-Seine? 8)

1. Where did I get this info?
Well, it came from a historical book, but to be more precise just before a quote from Capitaine Simon of the 1re DFL:

"I have not forgotten the immense joy of seeing the first tanks of the Leclerc division come to meet us, we who came from Provence, after hard fighting. The Leclerc arm, which had come from Normandy, was reaching out to the de Lattre arm, which had come from Italy, Corsica and North Africa. In our eyes, this meeting embodied the dazzling victory of the French army over Nazism, the end of the dark years of the Occupation." (Capitaine Simon, 1re DFL)

It was just before this quote that it was written: "The junction with [...] was made at Nogent-sur-Seine, West of the Langres plateau, on September 12 between [...]."

So, apparently, the confusion does not come from Captain Simon but rather from the author of the book... Anyway, "West of the Langres plateau". This plateau is North of Dijon, perhaps roughly 40 kilometers North of it... if this info related to this plateau is to be trusted, then it's definitely NOT Nogent-sur-Seine but could perfectly be indeed Nod-sur-Seine...

2. Could we find more concrete info about this?
Sure enough, here it is: Would a monument do? :D

From https://www.tracesofwar.com/sights/2174 ... -Seine.htm the text reads:
"Monument Meeting French Divisions Nod-sur-Seine

This monument is situated besides the D971 in Nod-sur-Seine. On September 12th the 1st and 2nd division of the Free French Army meet up on this location. On the memorial plaque the locations are named where the divisions served during World War 2.

Besides the monument stands an American M3 Half-track and a Willys Jeep."
And there are two cool pictures... (Of course the location matches: https://www.tracesofwar.com/sights/2174 ... -Seine.htm )

3. So back to this:
bru888 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 11:57 pm
ColonelY wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 2:38 pm Campaign event: "Highly symbolical meeting!" :D

"At Nogent-sur-Seine, west of the Langres plateau, on 12 September 1944, two reconnaissance units make contact. One comes from the "2e Division Blindée" of Leclerc, while the other comes from the "1re DFL".

Thus, after hard fightings, the arm of Leclerc, from Normandy, and the arm of Tassigny, from Italy, Corsica and North Africa, can finally shake hands!

In the eyes of the French combattants, this meeting embodies the dazzling victory of the French army over Nazism, the end of the dark years of the Occupation!

But, of course, the war is not over yet..."

Or something similar... :wink:
Atkinson has the location as "Nod-sur-Seine, forty miles northeast of Dijon": [...]

I don't think de Lattre's forces ever made it as close to Paris as Nogent-sur-Seine whereas Nod-sur-Seine, near Dijon, seems more logical for the meeting. I will go with Atkinson unless you have further documentation that contradicts him. (Despite his own error; Nod-sur-Seine being northwest of Dijon. :roll: )
Well, I should perhaps have double-checked this info, even if it came from a (on the whole very reliable) historical book... :roll: :oops:

:arrow: So, no, no further contradiction here; it's indeed Nod-sur-Seine, and this time for sure! :D
ColonelY
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

Dragoon: 8)

Extract from General de Gaulle's Mémoires de Guerre:

"Finally, the date of the landing in the Midi was set for August 15. As we wanted, all the French land, sea and air forces available in the Mediterranean would have to participate. In the meantime, some of our troops would be up to the extreme limit in the fight with the enemy in the Italian peninsula. Continuing his advance with the Monsabert and Dody Divisions and a group of tabors, General de Larminat took Siena on 3 July, taking every precaution to avoid damaging this wonderful city. On 22 July, our troops, under the direct orders of Juin, who wanted to lead the last battles in Italy himself, took Castelfiorentino in sight of Florence and the Arno valley, where the enemy was to re-establish itself for many months. Then, handing over their sector to allied elements, our people hurried towards the ships that would land them in France."

Pretty cool, isn't it? :D

So, the French really wanted to commit all available troops, but still fought (successfully) as long as possible in Italy!

:arrow: That deserves to be mentioned somewhere, in the briefing or something, doesn't it? :wink:
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

The "Monsabert and Dody Divisions"? Well, if they haven't changed commander before Dragoon (which would be rather unlikely to happen), then by looking at Dragoon OoB, then it was the "3e Division d'Infanterie Algérienne" (Monsabert) and the "2e Division d'Infanterie Marocaine" (Dody)... :wink:
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

Oh, and by the way, do you remember that we've said "in principle no more Somua nor B1 tank within this campaign"? Well, but these appear to have sporadically still been used... So, we'll see. :wink:

Indeed, the French keep using their own tanks, as for example I've found references to the use of Somua tanks to fight some of the German "Atlantic pockets" (sometimes these pockets were in fact even rather strong fortresses - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_pockets )... so the "unbroken front" concept, well... :?

Look for the "13e Régiment de Dragons", at "la Poche de Royan" in here: https://www.chars-francais.net/2015/ind ... 9-1944-ffi (with many great pictures of tanks)!

And even B1 tanks were reconditioned to participate in operations as written (and translated!):
"[...] About forty tanks were thus recovered.
The whole was dismantled, the recovered parts were sorted out, and by cannibalizing all that, 15 B1 bis tanks were reconditioned by the SOMUA company and the Establishment of the Material of Gien.
In April 1945, the regiment moved by rail from Orléans to the Royan pocket. It was attached to the VIth American Army. On April 15, the regiment was engaged with Didonne, St-Georges-de-Didonne and the woods southeast of Royan as objectives
."
Last edited by ColonelY on Thu May 06, 2021 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Free France Campaign

Post by ColonelY »

8) Again according to the Memories of War of De Gaulle, 2nd volume, pp 346-347:

At the end of July, the French forces in the interior held back 8 enemy divisions, none of which could reinforce those fighting on the front. The 1st Infantry Division and the 5th Parachute Division in Brittany, the 175th Division in Anjou and Touraine, the 116th Panzer Division around Paris, the so-called "Ostlegion" Division in the Massif Central, the 181st Division in Toulouse, the 172nd Division in Bordeaux, the value of a division taken from the army of Provence to guard the Rhone valley (thus a help for the forthcoming Operation Dragoon!), were stuck where they were. Moreover, 3 Panzerdivisions, which the German commanders urgently called in Normandy to engage within 48 hours, suffered enormous delays. The 17th Panzer, which had to fight with our own between Bordeaux and Poitiers, lost 10 days before its columns managed to break through. The 2nd SS Panzer, known as "Das Reich", left Montauban on June 6 and could not use the railroads - all of which were out of order - and saw its elements stopped in the Tarn, the Lot, the Corrèze and the Haute-Vienne. It arrived in Alençon only on June 18, exhausted and decimated. The 11th Panzer, which had come by rail from the Russian front to the French border in eight days, took 23 days to cross France from Strasbourg to Caen. And how to evaluate the effect produced on the material and moral state of all the other German units by the avatars of the convoys, the supplies, the connections?

For the same reasons, one can foresee that the rear of the enemy forces in charge of the defense of the Mediterranean coast will become untenable as soon as the French and Americans land in Provence. In the first days of August, the military delegate in the South East, Colonel Henri Zeller, came from France to tell me this. He stated that once Toulon and Marseille had been taken, our troops would be able to quickly overrun the successive resistance that would block the Rhone valley, because the Alps and the Massif Central were already in the possession of our forces from the interior. (Nice, isn't it?) Zeller repeated his demonstration to Generals Patch and de Lattre to whom I sent it immediately. The latter modified the rhythm they had planned for their progression accordingly. Events proved Zeller right. Lyon, which the commanders had planned to take only after two months of battle, would be in our hands 17 days after the landing.
:D
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