Dice rolls

Take one of the most modern, fun and engaging board games created in recent years. Match it with cutting-edge technology. Add a ridiculously well-crafted art style and a ton of extra content. This is the recipe to one of the most thrilling, charming and captivating strategy games you will ever find!
Post Reply
Wodin
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 2:45 pm

Dice rolls

Post by Wodin » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:09 am

Anyone else feel at times the dice go in the AI's favour? Or is it just me be paranoid.

Enjoying it at the moment. Good fun and pleasing to look at. Not sure how long it's going to hold my interest though. I'm hoping after awhile it has masses of content\maps and units to play around with. You do get a fair bit for your money but due to it being pretty light and the missions are over very quick it's going to be success solely on how varied and how many unit types get released. I'd like to see flamethrowers, tank busting exploding dogs, like to see leaders and even units gain abilities as the campaigns go on there by creating an attachment to them. Maybe have sewer movement. Be able to place fortifications and trenches etc at the start of a scenario. Bring in the Russians. Bring in weather effects. Possible air strikes and off map arty units. Bigger maps again. If units gain experience and new abilities or improve the ones they already have and leave it up to the player to choose what to spend the experience "points" on then players will get a fully custom made battalion\Company unique to the player. Maybe have Para's that can air drop behind the enemy. Engineers with demo charges. Bunkers that need to be breached to kill the occupants. As I said bigger maps with say upto a platoon of tanks..so four or five of the same type but different commanders with different skills.

IronFist00
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:21 am

Re: Dice rolls

Post by IronFist00 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:34 am

I've gotten this feeling many, many times playing electronic games that have a heavy RNG component, such as HoN. To be fair, using a single 1D6 produces more consistent results than the dreaded 2D6 (I've always preferred 1D12 myself). What a development house uses for their RNG can also have an effect on the results distribution because not all of them are equal.

That being said I have seen the RNG favor me about as much as the AI in HoN. I don't find it as bad as in other games so far (about 30 plays in).

A sign of good game design when a RNG component is present, imo, is that tactics can mitigate the RNG somewhat if not completely. Again I find that using tactics to "stack the odds" in my favor is possible in HoN.

All that makes it bother me less, or feel less of a victim, than in other offerings.

Igorputski
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:08 pm

Re: Dice rolls

Post by Igorputski » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:04 am

Yep, I agree. No matter which side you play you get the low rolls and the ai gets the high rolls.

But, really that's not the only issue with this game. There's really no tactical value to it. They say the terrain is an advantage but if the ai is going to keep rolling high it doesn't matter you'll still take damage.

I've got to where now I just stay in the deployment zone and click on roll die. Doesn't matter I'm still going to get a 1 or a 2 no matter where I move.

Just has no fun value like say a Panzer Command Osfront. I'm going back to playing it and wait for the next supposedly great wargame or strategy game. This one sure wasn't it.

IainMcNeil
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 13508
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:19 am

Re: Dice rolls

Post by IainMcNeil » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:45 am

The rolls are random and there is no favouring one side. You can record the rolls and check if you want :)

People generally notice when they have bad luck, but good luck is assumed to be good play.

Once you are more familiar with it you'll see the benefits of cover and terrain. There is an element of luck but you can massively reduce its role once you are familiar with the system.

tycoon
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:04 am

Re: Dice rolls

Post by tycoon » Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:31 am

I can tell little differance between my luck with dice in the boardgame it's based on and the digital version - having outragious bad rolls in both, and sometimes getting away with crazy stunts - specialy with some of the heroes. Knowing the units strong points and weak points and game mechanics defenitly helps too... like using a unit that has a +2-3 or even 4-5 bonus VS that type of target instead of one that has +0 or 1.
As for the cover, take advantage of wrecks that block LoS, buildings, other units and so on.
Last edited by tycoon on Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Be carefull what you wish for, you just might get it!

Igorputski
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:08 pm

Re: Dice rolls

Post by Igorputski » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:54 am

makes no difference what you do when the majority of the rolls are 1's and 2's.

Also, let's say it is random for a moment. Newcomers to this are not going to be happy seeing 1's and 2's they roll all the time and the ai get's mostly 5's and 6's. They like me are going to be more turned off to it than I am in a hurry and quit the game, get a refund and give Matrixgames/Slitherine a bad name and probably low review scores everywhere they can vote.

You might think about that and present a die roll curve program where the game is designed to let the player win in the first few games no matter what. Then when they get the lousy rolls they will probably more likely to accept them because they got good rolls for so long. Just a thought you can do whatever you want but I'm done with this game and I won't be recommending it to friends.

twilightling
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:20 pm

Re: Dice rolls

Post by twilightling » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:51 pm

I have read a lot of rage when it comes to random number but asking the Devs to make sure that the RNG is cheating in favor of the player is something new. I personally think that the RNG should be as random as possible and leave it at that.

Brenmusik
Major - Jagdpanther
Major - Jagdpanther
Posts: 1088
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:00 pm
Location: Albion

Re: Dice rolls

Post by Brenmusik » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:11 pm

twilightling wrote:I have read a lot of rage when it comes to random number but asking the Devs to make sure that the RNG is cheating in favor of the player is something new.
Perhaps there could be the option to extend the "shake time" or blow on them, see if that makes them any happier :)

IainMcNeil
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 13508
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:19 am

Re: Dice rolls

Post by IainMcNeil » Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:46 pm

The thing is the board game is gully popular and this is how it works. Yes it is brutal but thats part of the fun. People are much more willing to tolerate bad luck against a human opponent than against the AI.

As you get better you'll realise what risks to take and what to avoid.

We are looking at difficulty levels to help new users get used to things so we'll see if this helps.

Uncle_Joe
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:35 am

Re: Dice rolls

Post by Uncle_Joe » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:43 pm

As someone who rolls TERRIBLY in face to face board games, I've actually felt like my rolls in the HoN PC battles have been pretty darned good lol. I actually take shots on the PC that I wouldn't bother with in the board game. So yeah, I would say it's mostly just perception... ;)

stumac68
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:42 pm

Re: Dice rolls

Post by stumac68 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:49 pm

Just played the tutorials and now onto the first campaign......................and it's just not enjoyable.
I have vehicles fighting against exposed infantry units (right next to them) and having had 5 attempts at the whole scenario, I've just calculated the dice roll at about 85% 1,2's and 3's.
Which is ridiculous and unrealistic. Even if the infantry units were embedded in a hedge, the modify for a cannot shot should be massive! And even more so out in the open!!!!!
Yet the AI unit can fire across a large distance and whack my units consistently!

I accept when a game is hard and even choose that option on every game I play.
But the whole AI in the combat is just unrealistic.

It's so bad I've just requested a refund.........................first time I've done that on Steam.

IainMcNeil
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 13508
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:19 am

Re: Dice rolls

Post by IainMcNeil » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:53 pm

It really real does;t cheat. Why would we do that :)

It would be really hard to get it working right and would annoy people. This is entirely about perception. I don't know how we deal with it as sometimes you will be unlucky...

kyhamm
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 5:16 pm

Re: Dice rolls

Post by kyhamm » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:03 pm

Just finished one of the Scenario's in the first German Campaign had like 3 ones in a row then the Luchs fired on a truck and an infantry and killed them both, made the 1's disappear from my mind. I am really enjoying the game and can't wait for the cards.

Igorputski
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:08 pm

Re: Dice rolls

Post by Igorputski » Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:49 pm

A very simple difficulty modifier for this game would be

Easiest: +3 to the die roll of human player

Easy: +2 to the die roll of human player

Normal: +1 to the die roll of human player

Hard: +0 to the die roll of human player

Harder: -1 to the die roll of human player

Hardest: -2 to the die roll of human player.

Something like the above or nearabouts. You could make Normal the +0 to the die roll and leave it at that. As it is now I think normal is pretty hard with these 1's and 2's rolled all the time and computer ai gets 5's and 6'.

Then again maybe you are just forcing the player to take the veteran card everytime? I see power gaming written all over this game right now. Certain units that will give maximum orders per turn and certain special cards like planning, veteran and grenades in almost every game.

Igorputski
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:08 pm

Re: Dice rolls

Post by Igorputski » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:45 pm

Oh and just to let you know, even on an assault guess what I rolled and guess what the ai rolled? This it two dice this time. lol This game is an unbelievable cheating machine. Nice programming devs and I don't care what you say this ai is cheating no doubt about it imho.

tycoon
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:04 am

Re: Dice rolls

Post by tycoon » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:27 am

Igorputski wrote:Oh and just to let you know, even on an assault guess what I rolled and guess what the ai rolled? This it two dice this time. lol This game is an unbelievable cheating machine. Nice programming devs and I don't care what you say this ai is cheating no doubt about it imho.
I own the boardgame since it was released and stuff like that happens all the time, just like you might get double 6 when you only need 1s. - sadly I can tell you I see no differance in my luck with the digital dice here, possitive or negative, keeping score just to see if something fishy is gooing on, but on 250 or so dicerolls by now there is less then 5% variation - and 250 rolls is way to low to get a good average but the low variation has been gooing down

it realy comes down to stacking the odds in your favor, like for ex use supressive fire first (usualy it needs a lower result to hit and little or no defense against it) to reduce the targets defense value, and then shoot or assault the same target with an other unit to kill or reduce it's health. Keep in mind that bushes and defensive positions add +1 or +2 to defense, buildings can go even higher. Or where possible use the ambush side of a unit - units in that mode can't be shot at at all.
Be carefull what you wish for, you just might get it!

Uncle_Joe
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:35 am

Re: Dice rolls

Post by Uncle_Joe » Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:42 am

Wow I really didn't expect people to be so paranoid about die rolls!

If the devs say that there is no cheating, why would they lie?

I have seen some terrible luck in this game but I've seen it on both sides. Anything things don't go your way there is a tendency to want to blame the luck. Well, unfortunately, on a 1d6 roll, there is a lot unpredictability.

I guess one of the issues is that most of the battles (especially early on) are very small so a critical die roll here and there can make or break the game. When playing the board game we mostly stuck to 300-500 point battles where it was much easier to recover from a few lucky rolls and the luck didn't seem to play as much of a factor as it does in the small games.

Post Reply

Return to “Heroes of Normandie”