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feeding

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:27 am
by zeitoun
hi,

in the impact phase green HF charge and press forward to Yellow MF.
Image

Can the active player feed the red base into A or B during the manoeuvre phase?

Re: feeding

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:34 am
by david53
zeitoun wrote:hi,

in the impact phase green HF charge and press forward to Yellow MF.
Image

Can the active player feed the red base into A or B during the manoeuvre phase?
IIRC the active player can expand its frontage by one file a base frontage on one side only (taken from page 72)

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:59 am
by berthier
I don't think red 2 would be eligible for the expansion as the green/red bases must stay in contact and red 2 forms the link between the two green groups of the BG. Red 1 would still be eligible to expand to face A or B though. Maybe an author can clarify if I am reading the diagram correctly.

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:42 am
by shall
I assume you meant red 2 would NOT :?:

Si

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:58 am
by Polkovnik
But Red 1 can't expand on its own because that would then be an illegal formation (less bases in rear two ranks). Or is that allowed when in combat, as IIRC on another thread one of the authors said it was OK to have a pike BG with two bases in one file and 4 in the other.

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:05 pm
by berthier
berthier wrote:I don't think red 2 would be eligible for the expansion as the green/red bases must stay in contact and red 2 forms the link between the two green groups of the BG. Red 1 would still be eligible to expand to face A or B though. Maybe an author can clarify if I am reading the diagram correctly.
Si wrote

I assume you meant red 2 would NOT
"don't" = do not (at least here in the colonies)

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:33 pm
by titanu
I think that the expansion would have to be BOTH red bases moving into contact with either of the yellow bases. As far as I can see there is nothing to stop the unit breaking contact whilst in melee.

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:45 pm
by petedalby
As far as I can see there is nothing to stop the unit breaking contact whilst in melee.
The conflicts with my understanding - p23 states that bases must remain in contact with each other?

Pete

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:15 pm
by sagji
petedalby wrote:
As far as I can see there is nothing to stop the unit breaking contact whilst in melee.
The conflicts with my understanding - p23 states that bases must remain in contact with each other?

Pete
I agree, though I believe the intent is the BG must remain a contiguous block.
Which means that red 2 can't move.
However there is another rule which prevents red 2 moving - when feeding in more bases you can't move a base that is already in a position to contribute to the melee, and red 2 is an overlap on A.

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:00 pm
by rogerg
It's never an overlap!

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:43 pm
by zeitoun
so,

what is the response?

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:09 pm
by shall
"don't" = do not (at least here in the colonies)
Sorry misred your post ... are you sure you didn'edit that back on :wink: I must be going mad ... although most people would say I did years ago.

Si

Is it an overlap? Good question indeed. I believe it is indeed an overalp so good spot. The first two HF cannot be an overlap as contributing to combat to the front but there is nothing stopping a non-contributing 3rd 4th 5th 6th etc. rank. AS long as the green HF are not pike where it would give a POA. SO that anwers the detail as it can't be redelpoyed anyway.

On the "can you break contact with other bases of your BG question, I suspect all authors would say the intent was no, but I will bounce it across to them to check.

Si

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:28 am
by deadtorius
But Red 1 can't expand on its own because that would then be an illegal formation (less bases in rear two ranks). Or is that allowed when in combat, as IIRC on another thread one of the authors said it was OK to have a pike BG with two bases in one file and 4 in the other.
Just to clear that one up, the one file with 2 bases and the other with 4 bases was not a voluntary move but was the result of casualties from 2 different battlegroups that caused more casualties to be removed from one colum instead of from all across the back of the pike block.

In another post many months ago I had asked about breaking contact with the BG and it was decided you can not break contact with the rest of your BG even if it was to step forward into contact with another enemy unit. So I would agree that red 2 can not move into and overlap even though it appears to be in an overlap to start with, never caught that one myself good job.
I don't see any reason why red 1 could not move into an overlap though

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:11 am
by shall
Had a chat with Terry last night on these lest I was going mad...his view same as mine.

1) You can break normal formation as a result of combat effects. So 4-2 is allowed. And you can shuffle up or replace a base from the non-front rank bases. It is all to do with "compulsory move" which we did not define inthe glossary but had we done so it would be something you have to do under the rules. There are a few other situations where it can cause an "abmnormal formation". The primary issue with these is simply that they are "ok for now", but reform back to nromal formation as soon as they move again, or indeed earlier in any manouvre phase. So we play and interp this identically. Pretty simple really.
2) you can't break a BG up, which is why we force them to slide back into contact if a middle base is lost in combat.

And clearly can't move a base that is an overlap - which was a good spot by sadji.

Si

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:17 am
by sagji
shall wrote:Had a chat with Terry last night on these lest I was going mad...his view same as mine.

1) You can break normal formation as a result of combat effects. So 4-2 is allowed. And you can shuffle up or replace a base from the non-front rank bases. It is all to do with "compulsory move" which we did not define inthe glossary but had we done so it would be something you have to do under the rules. There are a few other situations where it can cause an "abmnormal formation". The primary issue with these is simply that they are "ok for now", but reform back to nromal formation as soon as they move again, or indeed earlier in any manouvre phase. So we play and interp this identically. Pretty simple really.
2) you can't break a BG up, which is why we force them to slide back into contact if a middle base is lost in combat.

And clearly can't move a base that is an overlap - which was a good spot by sadji.

Si
Except I don't see how you classify feeding in more bases in as a "compulsory move" - though I would like it to allow an abnormal formation.

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:22 pm
by shall
Should've gone to specsavers!

Si