Turns - ?
Moderators: philqw78, terrys, hammy, Slitherine Core, Field of Glory Design, Field of Glory Moderators
-
- Senior Corporal - Destroyer
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:16 am
- Location: West London, England
Turns - ?
Hi
Discussing last night we were left wondering why it is so much harder to turn through 180 degrees and move than it is to turn through 90 degrees and move.
Practical experience of moving large bodies of re-enactors about in period formations and costume comes down heavily in favour of it being no harder to turn to the rear and move off than to turn to the flank and move off. *
Indeed, if anything, moving to the flank is the harder of thr two, but FOG has it the opposite way round.
Could someone explain why the rules appear to contradict practical experience ?
Pete
* One of the discussers has commanded bodies of hundreds of Pike and Shot, the other similar sized groups of Vikings/Saxons.
Discussing last night we were left wondering why it is so much harder to turn through 180 degrees and move than it is to turn through 90 degrees and move.
Practical experience of moving large bodies of re-enactors about in period formations and costume comes down heavily in favour of it being no harder to turn to the rear and move off than to turn to the flank and move off. *
Indeed, if anything, moving to the flank is the harder of thr two, but FOG has it the opposite way round.
Could someone explain why the rules appear to contradict practical experience ?
Pete
* One of the discussers has commanded bodies of hundreds of Pike and Shot, the other similar sized groups of Vikings/Saxons.
-
- Field of Glory Moderator
- Posts: 10287
- Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:30 am
- Location: LarryWorld
A few reasons.
1. It doesn't appear to have happened often in actual battles (other than skirmishers) so you don't want it in the game.
2. 180 degree turns were by things like Laconian counter march which are rather pnderous.
3. It'd be crap for the game.
1. It doesn't appear to have happened often in actual battles (other than skirmishers) so you don't want it in the game.
2. 180 degree turns were by things like Laconian counter march which are rather pnderous.
3. It'd be crap for the game.
Nik Gaukroger
"Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he will tell you.
If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith
nikgaukroger@blueyonder.co.uk
"Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he will tell you.
If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith
nikgaukroger@blueyonder.co.uk
Re: Turns - ?
But you can do it if your outside 6mu and got a general with you.guthroth wrote:Hi
Discussing last night we were left wondering why it is so much harder to turn through 180 degrees and move than it is to turn through 90 degrees and move.
Practical experience of moving large bodies of re-enactors about in period formations and costume comes down heavily in favour of it being no harder to turn to the rear and move off than to turn to the flank and move off. *
Indeed, if anything, moving to the flank is the harder of thr two, but FOG has it the opposite way round.
Could someone explain why the rules appear to contradict practical experience ?
Pete
* One of the discussers has commanded bodies of hundreds of Pike and Shot, the other similar sized groups of Vikings/Saxons.
-
- Lieutenant Colonel - Elite Panther D
- Posts: 1368
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:03 pm
- Location: Leeds
With undrilled its a complex as you say and if you have a general the second move is stright forward.Robert241167 wrote:Only if your drilled Dave and I assume you would need a general with each BG if you wanted to turn each BG and move.
Undrilled may be a whole different proposition. Would you want to turn and move a BG not knowing if the next BG in line would be able to follow you?
Rob
But I can't see why you'd want to move like that at all.
I have done that with Cavalry but thats different.
Dave
-
- Lieutenant Colonel - Elite Panther D
- Posts: 1375
- Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 10:53 pm
- Location: Alcalá de Henares, Spain
I think that Pete is just pointing out an incoherence based on his experience. And I think he is right. However, regarding the game experience, it seems to me that the main idea of easing 90 degrees comes to let victorious troops to exploit gaps in the main line. And making 180 turns more difficult avoids some players playing a phalanx as if it were a group of skirmishers.
In fact, reading about the battles on the sources, what we don't find many times is many manouvering before the battle. Most of the manouvering took place while deploying and that is not described (Arrians description of Issos is a good example). Both commanders tried, if possible, to extend their lines to match their ennemies and then both lines clashed. Something so simple sometimes is hard to be found in many AAR's. That's why I liked some deployment rules like the ones of the Ruleset Armati.
In fact, reading about the battles on the sources, what we don't find many times is many manouvering before the battle. Most of the manouvering took place while deploying and that is not described (Arrians description of Issos is a good example). Both commanders tried, if possible, to extend their lines to match their ennemies and then both lines clashed. Something so simple sometimes is hard to be found in many AAR's. That's why I liked some deployment rules like the ones of the Ruleset Armati.
-
- 1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:44 am
- Location: Germany
That applies mostly to classical battles though, less so to medievals and especially not to highly mobile mounted armies, like Turks, Mongols and so on.Strategos69 wrote: In fact, reading about the battles on the sources, what we don't find many times is many manouvering before the battle. Most of the manouvering took place while deploying and that is not described (Arrians description of Issos is a good example). Both commanders tried, if possible, to extend their lines to match their ennemies and then both lines clashed. Something so simple sometimes is hard to be found in many AAR's. That's why I liked some deployment rules like the ones of the Ruleset Armati.
Karsten
~ We are not surrounded, we are merely in a target rich environment. ~
~ We are not surrounded, we are merely in a target rich environment. ~
-
- Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
- Posts: 171
- Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:43 am