impact foot vs impact foot

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giff
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impact foot vs impact foot

Post by giff » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:49 am

Guys, I may have a really dumb question or maybe I just have played too many diffrent tabletop games but when I played my first FoG game the other day I could not find a reason or a bonus when charging.
Here is the set up
8 stands of gaul MF charge 8 stands of Carthage MF on the right wing of the army and 8 stands of Carthage MF charge 8 stands of Gaul on the left wing.
There was no diffrence in the number of dice, pips, PoA's to roll for my gauls. I dont see the bonus in being the charger or the chargee. If you see what I am trying to say. in every other game I have ever played the charger got something in his favor i.e. more move distance,an extra attack, +1 to hit, "something"
What am I over looking? am I missing forest for the trees?

Why do my gauls fight the same taking a charge or charging? :? :? :? :?

Jilu
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Re: impact foot vs impact foot

Post by Jilu » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:53 am

giff wrote:Guys, I may have a really dumb question or maybe I just have played too many diffrent tabletop games but when I played my first FoG game the other day I could not find a reason or a bonus when charging.
Here is the set up
8 stands of gaul MF charge 8 stands of Carthage MF on the right wing of the army and 8 stands of Carthage MF charge 8 stands of Gaul on the left wing.
There was no diffrence in the number of dice, pips, PoA's to roll for my gauls. I dont see the bonus in being the charger or the chargee. If you see what I am trying to say. in every other game I have ever played the charger got something in his favor i.e. more move distance,an extra attack, +1 to hit, "something"
What am I over looking? am I missing forest for the trees?

Why do my gauls fight the same taking a charge or charging? :? :? :? :?
The bonus is the ++ POA for impact foot during impact phase

giff
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Post by giff » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:56 am

yes I know but if the other unit is also impact foot where is the bonus for charging?????

Mehrunes
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Post by Mehrunes » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:59 am

Because they most likely will run too on the last metres/yards and clash with the enemy. So both units can make use of their impact status. Why should there a bonus for the attacker?
At least there ARE cases where it matters who charges. Just look up the POA table.

And there is still the time management issue, it can matter when you initiate a melee, maybe you want it start later, then you don't charge, or sooner, then you charge.

giff
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Post by giff » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:04 am

Ok let me see if I can boil this down to a simple question

Is there a bonus (PoA) for the charging unit, any unit. That the same unit does not get when charged?

Jilu
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Post by Jilu » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:16 am

If impact foot they both have the ++poa they are both considered charging. Just like Knights always have their Lance.
Shock troops are rarely caught their pants down

giff
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Post by giff » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:36 am

If impact foot they both have the ++poa they are both considered charging. Just like Knights always have their Lance.
Shock troops are rarely caught their pants down
so when two equal units make contact in the impact phase there is no advantage in being the unit that is charging. Your advantage is in your troops capabilities and the skills/armor ect.?? Do I have this correct?

madmike111
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Post by madmike111 » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:45 am

Summary is there is no advantage of charging, assumed the non moving players troops would in fact counter charge even if its only a short distance, this isn't represented on the top.

Interestingly there can be disadvantages in charging, such as some foot charging lancers.

Jilu
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Post by Jilu » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:47 am

giff wrote:
If impact foot they both have the ++poa they are both considered charging. Just like Knights always have their Lance.
Shock troops are rarely caught their pants down
so when two equal units make contact in the impact phase there is no advantage in being the unit that is charging. Your advantage is in your troops capabilities and the skills/armor ect.?? Do I have this correct?
YES correct

giff
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Post by giff » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:54 am

Thank you, you all have been very helpful quick in response. Now I can fall asleep happy in the knowlage that I was right about the question even if I cant spell to good. :D

hammy
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Post by hammy » Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:36 am

Hi Giff,

Essentially at the scale of the game troops are assumed to make the sensible response to charges.

There are times where charging is bad, in general when infantry charge shock cavalry they are penalised for doing so.

Most of the time like with the impact foot vs impact foot a short hard counter charge is assumed.

batesmotel
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Post by batesmotel » Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:29 pm

Something to keep in mind however, is that there are often meta-advantages to being the player who charges. In doing so it does give you the choice of exactly which BGs are involved in the combat and how they are matched up/lined up. So while there isn't generally an obvious benefit in terms of extra movement or a PoA bonus, being the player with the initiative can still give you an overall advantage.

Chris
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ottomanmjm
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Post by ottomanmjm » Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:52 am

giff wrote:Ok let me see if I can boil this down to a simple question

Is there a bonus (PoA) for the charging unit, any unit. That the same unit does not get when charged?
There are troops that get a POA when not charging that do not get a POA when charging. Defensive Spear get a POA if charged by Offensive Spear but not if they charge, similarly pike do not get a POA if charging shock mounted. So sometimes it is better not to be charging (POA wise). This means that those units that do not lose out on POA's when charging have more flexibility.

Regards
Martin

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Post by GHGAustin » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:49 pm

There are some instances where charging does actually hurt you. For example, spears, pike, and impact foot charging shock mounted are at a disadvantage. It is assumed in these instances that it is better for the foot to be stationary to receive the charge. But if they initiate a charge verses shock mounted, then the mounted will actually counter-charge them at the lat minute and hit the moving foot. This is not shown in the actual movement of the BGs, however.
Rob Smith
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Post by ShrubMiK » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:47 pm

And note that this also applies if the shock mounted are charging somebody else, and the impact foot intercept them.

mbsparta
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Post by mbsparta » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:46 pm

Just to add my 2 cents: In a move counter move game one needs to limit the advantages of charging and creats a more realistic outcome. Impact Foot that charge Impact Foot should not gain an advantage as both would close to impact. This is a strength of FoG IMHO.

Mike B

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