Menavlatoi

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Maniakes
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Menavlatoi

Post by Maniakes » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:57 pm

The Nikephorian Byzantine army contained a troop type called Menavlatoi. These were anti-mounted specialists who would sortie out in front of the main battle line with very heavy spears to receive mounted charges. In FOG they are given Heavy Weapons which aren't really specialist anti-mounted weapons - especially in the Impact phase. I suspect they might have got this classificaton via DBM, with the reasoning going:-

1) They are weird anti-mounted troops. Bd(X) are weird anti-mounted troops. Therefore they are Bd(X).
2) Bd(X) are equivalent to Heavy Weapons

Is there a better way to classify them? How about:-

1) Just incorporate them in the Spearmen and delete them as an option
2) Make them stronger against mounted eg Offensive Spear
3) Represent their effect against mounted by using a limited number of Portable Defences - either a couple of frontages worth for one of the Spear/Bow BGs or as a small BG of Spear with PD


What do you think? The main point is that this should be a bit of colour not something that makes the infantry component of the Nikephorians too strong - historically it should be a combined arms army with the mounted the more important.

nikgaukroger
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Post by nikgaukroger » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:16 pm

IMO (1) is the best representation of them to be honest as I don't really get the impression from the Praecepta that they were really that effective - to be honest they're allowed as a separate BG more for a bit of colour and variety than anything and HW troops are not that effective so ...

Maniakes
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Post by Maniakes » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:07 pm

So my other suggestions would make them too powerful? It's sort of OK at the moment because they are not compulsory - so anyone who has doubts about their historical classification can just not take them.

mungocallow
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Re: Menavlatoi

Post by mungocallow » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:22 pm

http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/menavlion.htm From what i have been reading online by just typing in menavlatoi via google the heavy weapon classification seems wrong. If anything they sound like Offensive spear

ravenflight
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Re: Menavlatoi

Post by ravenflight » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:25 pm

Remember though that classification has a lot to do with ways of fighting as opposed to weapons. For example Vikings, with, granted, a high proportion of spears but also a lot of axes & swords etc, are rated as 'Offensive Spearmen' mainly because of the shieldwall tactic.

Perhaps these chaps 'rushing out front' didn't have the formation to fight mounted as spearmen???

mungocallow
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Re: Menavlatoi

Post by mungocallow » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:31 pm

Fair point, just seems a bit weird though

ravenflight
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Re: Menavlatoi

Post by ravenflight » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:41 pm

mungocallow wrote:Fair point, just seems a bit weird though
Hell, we're (mostly) beardy old gits pushing around pieces of metal painted in bright colours. Weird just begins to describe the whole situation :)

petedalby
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Re: Menavlatoi

Post by petedalby » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:30 am

:D
Pete

mungocallow
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Re: Menavlatoi

Post by mungocallow » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:07 am

ha ha, no beard here but certainly weird

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