Questions on Rear Support - piccies and longish

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WombatDazzler
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Questions on Rear Support - piccies and longish

Post by WombatDazzler » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:51 am

Hi all,

I would like to get a clarification on several rear support questions.

I will give what I think is the correct answer.

3 units - All non skirmishers, the same morale and within support distance - Blue is the unit giving support

Situation 1 (all units facing up the page)

Image

Both Front units are supported - YES

Situation 2 (front units facing up the page - Blue facing across the page)

Image

Both Front units are supported - NO

Situation 3 (front units facing up the page - Blue facing the red unit)

Image

Both Front units are supported - NO
Red is supported - YES

Situation 4 (all facing up the page)

Image

Both Front units are supported - NO

Situation 5 (all facing up the page)

Image

Both Front units are supported - YES

cheers

Dazzler

hammy
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Post by hammy » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:59 am

I concur (assuming the supporting BG in 2 is facing to the right)

If the supporting BG in situation 3 was slightly to the left (only very slightly) then it would support both BGs

[EDIT: Just in case of confusion when I read the post for some reason I assumed that situation 2 said that the right hand BG was supported hence the comment about the facing of the supporting BG. ]
Last edited by hammy on Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

rbodleyscott
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Post by rbodleyscott » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:04 pm

In situation 2 red is supported if blue is facing right.

" The number of such bases at least partly directly to the battle group’s rear must be at least half the original total number of bases in the supported battle group.
 The supported battle group must be at least partly in front of a straight line extending the front edge of the supporting bases"

Green is not supported even if blue is facing left, because it fails the first of the above bullets.

deadtorius
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Post by deadtorius » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:52 am

situation 2
I guess it comes down to the interpretation of extending the front edge, in this case meaning extending to the side. I would have guessed No to that one as well, thanks for pointing that one out could make a difference some time as long as I don't forget it.

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Post by sagji » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:10 pm

All correct - however you refer to units being in support distance. This is incorrect the bases need to be in support range. Thus in situation 4 if blue is HF 7 MU back from reg and green then it isn't supporting as there aren't 4 bases within 8 MU.

HannibalBarca
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Post by HannibalBarca » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:17 pm

Also, I don't know if it's just a slip-up, but they have to be the same or better quality rather than morale, don't they?

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Post by hammy » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:09 pm

HannibalBarca wrote:Also, I don't know if it's just a slip-up, but they have to be the same or better quality rather than morale, don't they?
There is no such thing as morale in FoG, just quality.

Elite troops can provide support to anything.
Superior to all bar elites
Average only to average and poor
Poor only to poor.

Skirmishers can't provide rear support but can be supported

Light foot in mixed BGs are not skirmishers so do count for support.

HannibalBarca
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Post by HannibalBarca » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:27 pm

I know. Morale is what he wrote and I assume by that he meant cohesion level. It certainly doesn't read as quality, which is what it ought to have been. :)

DaiSho
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Re: Questions on Rear Support - piccies and longish

Post by DaiSho » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:09 am

WombatDazzler wrote: Situation 3 (front units facing up the page - Blue facing the red unit)

Image

Both Front units are supported - NO
Red is supported - YES
Since I was playing Dazzler and Al last weekend when the rear support issue came up, I'd like to clarrify this point a little more. What if the supporting unit was all the way to the right and only JUST clipped the very corner of the rear base. I still think it's supporting because the supporting unit is STILL directly to the rear, or the supported unit is still DIRECTLY to the supporting unit's front, but I can see where 'directly' can be read multiple ways.

Ian

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Re: Questions on Rear Support - piccies and longish

Post by SirGarnet » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:15 am

DaiSho wrote:Since I was playing Dazzler and Al last weekend when the rear support issue came up, I'd like to clarrify this point a little more. What if the supporting unit was all the way to the right and only JUST clipped the very corner of the rear base. I still think it's supporting because the supporting unit is STILL directly to the rear, or the supported unit is still DIRECTLY to the supporting unit's front, but I can see where 'directly' can be read multiple ways.

Ian
No support, if you mean only the tail of one base is behind the front BG. Support is counted in bases directly BEHIND the front BG. To count those bases, some part of the front BG must be in front of a line prolonging the front of the supporting base. Two different tests.

Mike

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Re: Questions on Rear Support - piccies and longish

Post by DaiSho » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:32 am

MikeK wrote:
DaiSho wrote:Since I was playing Dazzler and Al last weekend when the rear support issue came up, I'd like to clarrify this point a little more. What if the supporting unit was all the way to the right and only JUST clipped the very corner of the rear base. I still think it's supporting because the supporting unit is STILL directly to the rear, or the supported unit is still DIRECTLY to the supporting unit's front, but I can see where 'directly' can be read multiple ways.

Ian
No support, if you mean only the tail of one base is behind the front BG. Support is counted in bases directly BEHIND the front BG. To count those bases, some part of the front BG must be in front of a line prolonging the front of the supporting base. Two different tests.

Mike
No, I mean the corner of the supported base is directly behind the supporting bases. So, if you drew a line from the flank of the supporting unit it would clip the supported unit. IMHO they are supported, although only just.

Then again, I was benefitting from the support.

Ian

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Re: Questions on Rear Support - piccies and longish

Post by hammy » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:37 am

DaiSho wrote:No, I mean the corner of the supported base is directly behind the supporting bases. So, if you drew a line from the flank of the supporting unit it would clip the supported unit. IMHO they are supported, although only just.

Then again, I was benefitting from the support.

Ian
Sounds OK to me.

The definition of rear support is really quite generous in some ways but very restrictive in others.

Consider this:

Image

Both green and blue are supporting red.

kal5056
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Post by kal5056 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:26 pm

Sorry but I do not think Blue is supporting Red
Because trhe line you draw that just clips Red is from the second rank base not the front rank base.
Move blue back one base depth and you have it. (IMHO)
Gino
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Post by plewis66 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:49 pm

Hmmm.

I can see where kal5056 thinks blue is not supportng, and where Hammy thinks it is... I think.

The wording is (quoting Richard from above):

"The supported battle group must be at least partly in front of a straight line extending the front edge of the supporting bases."

It doesn't say " aline extending the front of the supporting battle group", but "supporting bases".

In the diagram, there are enough blue bases meeting that requirement to provide support.

kal5056
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Post by kal5056 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:22 pm

You have read my thought exactly and I am now itching to get home to my rule book and read it myself.
Gino
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Re: Questions on Rear Support - piccies and longish

Post by SirGarnet » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:48 pm

hammy wrote: Both green and blue are supporting red.
..is true because 2 green bases are in position and that is alone enough to rear support red, and 2 blue bases are in position and that is alone enough to rear support red.

Very good diagram.

hammy
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Re: Questions on Rear Support - piccies and longish

Post by hammy » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:58 pm

MikeK wrote:
hammy wrote: Both green and blue are supporting red.
..is true because 2 green bases are in position and that is alone enough to rear support red, and 2 blue bases are in position and that is alone enough to rear support red.

Very good diagram.
Thanks,

I was trying to do something even more complex but this diagram covers the points needed.

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